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I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

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Comments

  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Like i said i have no clue though , i hope they show more combat every month or maybe that is copium lol.
  • Mag7spy wrote: »
    Like i said i have no clue though , i hope they show more combat every month or maybe that is copium lol.

    I certainly do hope it isn't copium, considering how combat is an essential concept for any MMORPG possible the aspect players have to engage with the majority of their in-game time and it was stated it is going to be presented in smaller pieces.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Like i said i have no clue though , i hope they show more combat every month or maybe that is copium lol.

    I certainly do hope it isn't copium, considering how combat is an essential concept for any MMORPG possible the aspect players have to engage with the majority of their in-game time and it was stated it is going to be presented in smaller pieces.

    Ya but it could be like a small piece every 2-3 months xD. Tab target combat - more classes- shown augments shown - more skills shown - movement - mounted combat - navel combat.

    Give all those 2 month each that is over a year x.x. But i'll hope for the best haha.
  • Fatalmistake187Fatalmistake187 Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.
    If, in Ashes, Action Combat has advantage over Tab Targeting in PvP, the game design has failed.
    It's highly unlikely that will remain a thing for long.

    Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.
  • Fatalmistake187Fatalmistake187 Member, Alpha Two
    ItsmeToki wrote: »
    As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

    I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game. ;)
    I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties beeing available for each class so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim a few basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

    I never said anywhere, it's the ONLY skill needed. Not sure how you got that from my comment, the main point I was making is you need to give advantage to action BECAUSE if you don't then no one will use it like in GW2 and honestly, I probably won't play the game as long as I want to because of it. Just my opinion.
  • ItsmeTokiItsmeToki Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    ItsmeToki wrote: »
    As long as the action combat has an advantage over tab targeting in pvp, I'm in. If not then we end up like GW2 and no one action combats because there you're at a disadvantage from tab targeting. Seeing as this is a big pvp game with risk and rewards it should give an advantage to skilled individuals.

    I am so excited to see players getting roasted in arenas who think action combat as aiming your attacks and landing your abilities will be the only skill needed in this game. ;)
    I am looking forward on a wide range of abilties beeing available for each class so that you actually have to think while outplaying your opponent rather than having just to aim a few basic attacks and handle a minor set of abilties like a braindead fool.

    I never said anywhere, it's the ONLY skill needed. Not sure how you got that from my comment, the main point I was making is you need to give advantage to action BECAUSE if you don't then no one will use it like in GW2 and honestly, I probably won't play the game as long as I want to because of it. Just my opinion.

    We are both living in countries of free speech :)
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.
    The point of having Action Combat is for people who like Action Combat to be able to experience Action Combat; it's not for people who like Action Combat to have an advantage over Tab Target players.

    I dunno what you mean by "no difference".
    Free aim is different than Tab Target.
    Active Block is different that Passive Block.

    I also don't know what you mean by Action Combat being guaranteed.
    And no... if anything... character build should trump player skill in an RPG.
    Ashes is not an FPS.

    But...the Hybrid Combat that Steven hopes for is not going to have one designed to have advantage over the other.
  • Fatalmistake187Fatalmistake187 Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.
    The point of having Action Combat is for people who like Action Combat to be able to experience Action Combat; it's not for people who like Action Combat to have an advantage over Tab Target players.

    I dunno what you mean by "no difference".
    Free aim is different than Tab Target.
    Active Block is different that Passive Block.

    I also don't know what you mean by Action Combat being guaranteed.
    And no... if anything... character build should trump player skill in an RPG.
    Ashes is not an FPS.

    But...the Hybrid Combat that Steven hopes for is not going to have one designed to have advantage over the other.

    And once again since action combat requires more skill because you need to aim, people won't use action combat like they don't in GW2 if tab targeting is just going to always hit. You need to balance the fact that tab skills and attacks will always hit while attack combat will vary depending on your skill, if you don't anyone competitive won't action combat and will just tab and going back to my point, what's the point of having action combat if tab targeting is just going to out play them every time by default?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Well, that's just not true.
    Especially since Action Combat is not just about aiming.

    Tab Target doesn't always hit.
    And, like I said, neither Tab Target nor Action Combat will be designed to outplay each other.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Action combat should have an advantage its already stated that tab will have less accuracy. Everyone is well aware tab is easy mode and you don't have to deal with looking at your enemy or aiming anything. Though balance and design they will make it work I'm sure. The design would fail if there was no point in using action moves and a bunch of skills will just be never used.

    They could easily have stats to help balance things out further, but I'm unsure if they will do separate pvp and pve stats. I feel soft targeting is the best thing they can do for range action combat and make it so you need to face your target even in tab so you have a slower back peddle then running full speed and spamming skills with 0 efforts.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Uh. No. It's been stated that Action Combat will have less RNG.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Dygz wrote: »
    Uh. No. It's been stated that Action Combat will have less RNG.

    And that is stated my my post . Still shouldn't be able to run backwards not look at who you are targeting in pvp and just mash attacks. 0 skill involved and complete easy mode on kiting, unless melee classes can heavily slow down you from running full speed.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.
    Action combat doesn't need an inherent benefit in PvP, it will be used in PvP regardless because it is better suited to PvP than tab target combat is.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Noaani wrote: »
    Then what exactly is the point of having Action Combat? Again if there is no difference between the two then no one is going to use action at all because aiming your skills no matter how great your aim is, will never be a for sure thing like tab targeting in GW2. Then you have a situation where no one uses action because it's not guaranteed. So I disagree, if you're trying to make it so both things are viable, especially in pvp then action combat should have an advantage over tab targeting because it requires more skill to aim, lead and predict movements.
    Action combat doesn't need an inherent benefit in PvP, it will be used in PvP regardless because it is better suited to PvP than tab target combat is.

    That is not true, being able to run at full speed without needing to use aim to shoot someone or look in their direction and use all your skills to attack and kite will easily beat action combat.

    Its pretty clear even if you have a miss chance you can move out of action combat attacks while doing max damage. How would action combat have an advantage over that they both work the same except one you miss and one you do not.

    Only element that is better suited is the fun aspect over everything always hitting your target and adds more skill curves and just a more fun experience to most people.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2022
    Doesn't necessarily beat an Action Combat player. That still depends on how you've built your character.
    If an Action Combat player character has Passive Skills that mitigate Tab Target abilities, the Tab Target abilities will be mitigated.
    Same for gear.

    Both Action Combat and Tab Target abilities can miss.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    This whole discussion can be nipped in the bud by a single mechanic - detargeting. Give several classes different ways to detarget their enemy and you'll have yourself a pvp mechanic that requires tab players to be always looking at their enemy, otherwise they won't be able to hit them.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Can't be nipped in the bud...
    Like Corruption... test it and see for yourself, but...
    Some people are still going to whine until we test it.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Only element that is better suited is it is more fun, rathe
    Dygz wrote: »
    Doesn't necessarily beat an Action Combat player. That still depends on how you've built your character.
    If an Action Combat player character has Passive Skills that mitigate Tab Target abilities, the Tab Target abilities will be mitigated.
    Same for gear.

    Both Action Combat and Tab Target abilities can miss.

    That could be a thing but we don't know stats till we see it. The will be the main point when Alpha 2 releases and testing so they get the right balance. Though I don't think we will see stronger balance points until more towards the end of alpha 2 and in beta 1.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I tested some of that in Alpha One.
  • SeloSelo Member
    Are you in the right forum Mag7spy?
    Seems that you want a FPS game like Counter Strike or Battlefield rather than an mmorpg with all the "360 noscopes" and "skillshots"
    The game will die so extremly fast with a way to high skillceiling.

    I rather lower the skillceiling and have an even playinground for the masses than having a skillceiling only 10% of the playerbase can excel at.
    I find combat where i use my "attackskills" positiioning and tactics more fun than where i land more headshots than my enemy.
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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Selo wrote: »
    Are you in the right forum Mag7spy?
    Seems that you want a FPS game like Counter Strike or Battlefield rather than an mmorpg with all the "360 noscopes" and "skillshots"
    The game will die so extremly fast with a way to high skillceiling.

    I rather lower the skillceiling and have an even playinground for the masses than having a skillceiling only 10% of the playerbase can excel at.
    I find combat where i use my "attackskills" positiioning and tactics more fun than where i land more headshots than my enemy.

    Please quote me where I said headshot. Typical comment trying to skew what I'm saying to mean something else all together.

    Though yes i want a high skill ceiling with in-depth combat where you can dodge, use skills and out play people. I want it to the point where if you are bad at the game you can't beat a player that is good 100% of the time with equal gear or less gear. *ie if you are both lvl 50 if someone has better gear than you there is still a chance to win if you are skilled. I want a reason for people to learn the game systems and learn the combat as well so its something people can have fun improve on and playing generally.

    I just find it interesting how you think attack skills, positioning and tactics aren't a thing when you have a good combat system in game. Granted I find it interested because I'm sure you know that those exist in it but you are worried you can't keep up with more skilled people, so you want to lower to skill ceiling so its a lot more basic. You don't need to be the hero, gameplay is balanced for groups, just like you will fight good players you can meet good players to work with as well.

    You have a false perception that because its action its going to be overly fast where you can't keep up but that isn't true they will balance speed at a fair rate. And you have tab you can use anyway if you want a more easy mode.

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    That is not true, being able to run at full speed without needing to use aim to shoot someone or look in their direction and use all your skills to attack and kite will easily beat action combat.
    The only way you could think this is if you do not understand tab targets inherent weaknesses over action combat.

    I am not about to illustrate these to anyone. If you wish to spec mostly tab in Ashes for what you perceive as a PvP benefit, have at it.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    This whole discussion can be nipped in the bud by a single mechanic - detargeting. Give several classes different ways to detarget their enemy and you'll have yourself a pvp mechanic that requires tab players to be always looking at their enemy, otherwise they won't be able to hit them.

    Not sure if it will nip it in the bud, but agree on the detargeting. In WoW, Feign death for hunters and vanish / smoke bomb for rogues were incredibly helpful in arena (and frustrating when fighting those classes).

    I was going to say one of the biggest advantages to action combat is that my swing can connect with an opponent independent of my focus/target. Accidentally de-targeting an opponent in arena and not connecting an attack at a critical moment was just frustrating AF.

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  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    That is not true, being able to run at full speed without needing to use aim to shoot someone or look in their direction and use all your skills to attack and kite will easily beat action combat.
    The only way you could think this is if you do not understand tab targets inherent weaknesses over action combat.

    I am not about to illustrate these to anyone. If you wish to spec mostly tab in Ashes for what you perceive as a PvP benefit, have at it.

    Back peddling at full speed and shooting arrows at someone without needing to aim or look in even their general direction. As you can walk away from their skills and have some of them miss you because of the player missing a attack on top of it. While you are able to do maximum damage to them does not make any sense on how you see a benefit for a action based melee player. The effort they have to put in to be as effective is night and day compared to tab when it comes to pvp.

    Actually like most people I'll just give feed back and people can do plenty of test and show the amount of damage and ease of combat through testing when using tab. People will talk about it and things will get balanced further so there are more benefits for the action skills you are using.

    Common sense would say if you use a skill that you can miss and the person can dodge, there should be more benefits than using a skill that automatically hits the target while your camera isn't even facing them and you are running forward to kite. Its like saying I have aim bot but you have a sword so its ok and balanced.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Can't be nipped in the bud...
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Not sure if it will nip it in the bud, but agree on the detargeting. In WoW, Feign death for hunters and vanish / smoke bomb for rogues were incredibly helpful in arena (and frustrating when fighting those classes).
    I meant this current branch of the discussion that mainly stems from Mag saying that "you can just run forward and attack dudes w/o looking at them with your camera" (even though your character will still have to look at them). Yes, you'd still be able to do that if you wanted, but if several/most/all classes have some form of detargeting in the skillset, then it'd be much harder for you to not look at your opponent and win in a fight. And judging by Mag's like, I'd assume he'd support that kind of mechanic.

    Obviously it'll have to be tested in Ashes, cause I can already imagine a few ways of going around this mechanic, but all those ways depend on how exactly the whole combat system will work.
    CROW3 wrote: »
    I was going to say one of the biggest advantages to action combat is that my swing can connect with an opponent independent of my focus/target. Accidentally de-targeting an opponent in arena and not connecting an attack at a critical moment was just frustrating AF.
    Yeah, I've had a few bad fights that I lost just because I pressed esc one too many times, detargeted my enemy on accident and didn't use a crucial skill in time. But, imo, that's just the skill ceiling showing itself. A true pro player wouldn't make that mistake, or would at least minimize the amount of such mistakes across multiple battles.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Back peddling at full speed and shooting arrows at someone without needing to aim or look in even their general direction. As you can walk away from their skills and have some of them miss you because of the player missing a attack on top of it. While you are able to do maximum damage to them does not make any sense on how you see a benefit for a action based melee player. The effort they have to put in to be as effective is night and day compared to tab when it comes to pvp.
    Hey, if you think this is how tab target games work, by all means, spec tab.

    Just don't come complaining when you constantly lose in PvP.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    Back peddling at full speed and shooting arrows at someone without needing to aim or look in even their general direction. As you can walk away from their skills and have some of them miss you because of the player missing a attack on top of it. While you are able to do maximum damage to them does not make any sense on how you see a benefit for a action based melee player. The effort they have to put in to be as effective is night and day compared to tab when it comes to pvp.
    Hey, if you think this is how tab target games work, by all means, spec tab.

    Just don't come complaining when you constantly lose in PvP.

    This brings nothing to the conversation.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This brings nothing to the conversation.

    As I said, I am not going to give anyone that can't see it any assistance - why would I help you out now, when instead I can kill you even more easily in game and take your stuff?
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Mag7spy wrote: »
    This brings nothing to the conversation.

    As I said, I am not going to give anyone that can't see it any assistance - why would I help you out now, when instead I can kill you even more easily in game and take your stuff?

    I can see clearly, tab lock use skills and they hit. Much easier then someone using attacks. Either way I'm sure the design choices will be good for action combat and they will balance things out since they are already reducing accuracy for tab target skills. Devs will make the hybrid work and balance through the test so the extra effort you put in to landing your action combat will have meaning.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    I really hope they show off some tab combat in this month's stream. Cause I wanna see if tab abilities influence your character's position in any way, or if they just tell you "turn/run towards your target in order to use this ability".

    If tab stuff even just turns your character to aim at the target, I can already see how you might be able to combine action skills with tab targeting, while running away from your enemy.
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