I don't like action combat, and it could very potentially stop me from playing

I haven't played it yet, so I'm not drawing any sort of line yet. But steven asked for feedback about if we are going in a positive direction, and I'm just gonna say that every action combat korean type mmo I've ever played I have absolutely hated. I am tab target 100%, I think action combat only works from an overhead 3rd person perspective like diablo or league of legends or lost ark. I don't want to aim my ability's honestly, If I use a sword and get animation locked, and at the same time I'm required to dodge some kind of skill shot. I'm not gonna be happy. If I miss a spell as a spell caster because my mouse was 4 pixels off, same thing. Tab targeting let's me focus on what I think matters.

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Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

Both cause players to be waiting on a move, though non gcd will feel a bit better, but overall the discussion was feeling fluid and you still get the same stepping pauses akin to turn based that doesn't make fluid combat and why i compared it to bdo with how things chain together and the need to feel fluid else the combat would feel bad.

You still have skill animations in BDO. I'm pretty sure you can't just use 10 skills at the exact same time, so it also has a "gcd" by your logic. Its cast speeds are just quicker because the whole game is quicker. The only difference between tab and BDO is that bdo's skills are directionally rooted, so they move your character with the skill, while tab games are either completely planted (in the case of click to move) or let you move around while you cast them (which makes the combat feel floaty and unimpactful). But both have skill animations so they're both limited in the amount of actions you can do per second, with some (most) tab games having true gcd that's usually a 1sec+ of time between each skill.

I don't remember other korean tab games, but I have a feeling that they might not have gcd at all (or at least only a few do), due to the games being made for korea and ping is not really a problem there so you don't need to worry about attack feedback. Which is also the reason for BDO being so damn fast.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Both cause players to be waiting on a move, though non gcd will feel a bit better, but overall the discussion was feeling fluid and you still get the same stepping pauses akin to turn based that doesn't make fluid combat and why i compared it to bdo with how things chain together and the need to feel fluid else the combat would feel bad.

You still have skill animations in BDO. I'm pretty sure you can't just use 10 skills at the exact same time, so it also has a "gcd" by your logic. Its cast speeds are just quicker because the whole game is quicker. The only difference between tab and BDO is that bdo's skills are directionally rooted, so they move your character with the skill, while tab games are either completely planted (in the case of click to move) or let you move around while you cast them (which makes the combat feel floaty and unimpactful). But both have skill animations so they're both limited in the amount of actions you can do per second, with some (most) tab games having true gcd that's usually a 1sec+ of time between each skill.

I don't remember other korean tab games, but I have a feeling that they might not have gcd at all (or at least only a few do), due to the games being made for korea and ping is not really a problem there so you don't need to worry about attack feedback. Which is also the reason for BDO being so damn fast.

You are missing the point i made earlier about fluid being the inbetween of those motions, how do skills connect together. Example when you do one skill in bdo, it flows good with another move almost feeling seamless, into being able to cancel that with a movement skill. The whole motion of your animation is important as you need to aim and move to hit your target it is all part of it. Everything together and then you can mention how things are fluid and work together. Again GCD or having a spell cast on your every skill is stuttering combat, you don't need to aim the skill you just hug the enemy and it goes off. It isn't the same as for example a dark knight using their dash skill where they deal dmg to enemies close to them, with you needing to move towards your target and when you deal dmg when you are in range as hit boxes are a thing.

iccer

Mag7spy wrote: »

You are missing the point i made earlier about fluid being the inbetween of those motions, how do skills connect together. Example when you do one skill in bdo, it flows good with another move almost feeling seamless, into being able to cancel that with a movement skill. The whole motion of your animation is important as you need to aim and move to hit your target it is all part of it.

...and back to this again.

Yes, you can seamlessly chain your skills together, but during that time you don't have control over your character. Rather, its controlled by the ability you cast. So because of this design issue there is this thing called "animation cancelling" or "weaving", which can intentionally or accidentally appear in the game. I honestly don't want to deal with this mechanic at all, it's just dumb (ESO is the prime example).

Being able to constantly move my character around in combat (except when casting, but in some games you can do both at the same time) is something I don't want to give up, and it's another reason why I dislike action-combat.

Edit: And it's also why someone would think tab-targeting is more fluid.

Mag7spy

iccer wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You are missing the point i made earlier about fluid being the inbetween of those motions, how do skills connect together. Example when you do one skill in bdo, it flows good with another move almost feeling seamless, into being able to cancel that with a movement skill. The whole motion of your animation is important as you need to aim and move to hit your target it is all part of it.

...and back to this again.

Yes, you can seamlessly chain your skills together, but during that time you don't have control over your character. Rather, its controlled by the ability you cast. So because of this design issue there is this thing called "animation cancelling" or "weaving", which can intentionally or accidentally appear in the game. I honestly don't want to deal with this mechanic at all, it's just dumb (ESO is the prime example).

Being able to constantly move my character around in combat (except when casting, but in some games you can do both at the same time) is something I don't want to give up, and it's another reason why I dislike action-combat.

Well i speak for the action side when I say cancelling is exactly what we want. And yes movement abilities should control your character in some form. If you do a leap into a jump attack forward you shouldn't allt he sudden have 0 gravity and player can free move your character however they want including backwards, that would just be floaty. Its not a design issue, else being able to stop casting in tab target would be a design issue as well. You simply are able to use a dodge skill and stop your animation or attack so you can move out of the way of an attack. Being able to have a chance to react is important then being stuck in animation the whole time. One example would be during the spin attack being able to use your dodge skill before you do the upper cut if someone got out and tried to do some range dps on you.

Having movement during attacks is fine, same with some attacks that have movement set animations on them, its simply about having the right balance so you have more variety in the game to pull from and can balance out abilities differently while adding other effects to them.

If combat is fluid and god it shouldn't matter if an ability effects some of your movement, you the the direction fo your skill and you hit what you need to hit. Doesn't mean everything is use skill and you can only move forward in a straight line with every move that would feel clunky and not fluid. Having one skill that does do it could be a stronger move and feel a lot more impactful if you want it being more of a skill shot move.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You are missing the point i made earlier about fluid being the inbetween of those motions, how do skills connect together. Example when you do one skill in bdo, it flows good with another move almost feeling seamless, into being able to cancel that with a movement skill. The whole motion of your animation is important as you need to aim and move to hit your target it is all part of it. Everything together and then you can mention how things are fluid and work together. Again GCD or having a spell cast on your every skill is stuttering combat, you don't need to aim the skill you just hug the enemy and it goes off. It isn't the same as for example a dark knight using their dash skill where they deal dmg to enemies close to them, with you needing to move towards your target and when you deal dmg when you are in range as hit boxes are a thing.

I literally addressed this by saying "bdo skills are directional". The create the feeling of smoothness because your character moves with the skill and the whole combat design is built around idea. The aiming part is just difference between tab and action, I wouldn't really associate that with fluidity because NW had aiming too and I definitely do not remember that combat looking/feeling fluid.

And as I've said before, there's animation cancelation in tab games too (at the very least in L2). It feels more clunky mainly because the whole combat is planted (in the case of L2) so you can't do a movement cancel because the system itself isn't about movement. But even in that EQ2 assassin gameplay, to me, the combat looked fluid because you had skills flowing one to another w/o any real pauses and the character was constantly moving so it wasn't stationary combat (though to me even L2's combat can look fluid, but you'll disagree with that completely so whatever

).

Again, as I already said, perceived fluidity will always remain subjective, especially when it comes to discussions between people who haven't extensively played games from both sides of the discussion. And as others have said, you can't always just look at the video yelling "you see! you see! it looks like shit!", because most videos do not relate the feeling of gameplay and we base our subjective opinions about said gameplay by playing it. Though, obviously, these days most people just watch Asmon's reaction to some new mmo and base their entire attitude towards that game purely off of his words (that he himself bases purely on videos instead of gameplay). I personally dislike this trend, but what can you do.

iccer

Mag7spy wrote: »

Well i speak for the action side when I say cancelling is exactly what we want. And yes movement abilities should control your character in some form. If you do a leap into a jump attack forward you shouldn't allt he sudden have 0 gravity and player can free move your character however they want including backwards, that would just be floaty. Its not a design issue, else being able to stop casting in tab target would be a design issue as well. You simply are able to use a dodge skill and stop your animation or attack so you can move out of the way of an attack. Being able to have a chance to react is important then being stuck in animation the whole time. One example would be during the spin attack being able to use your dodge skill before you do the upper cut if someone got out and tried to do some range dps on you.

Having movement during attacks is fine, same with some attacks that have movement set animations on them, its simply about having the right balance so you have more variety in the game to pull from and can balance out abilities differently while adding other effects to them.

Movement abilities sure, that's also a thing in tab-target games. Using a charge will animation-lock you. But when I played BDO, and now when I watch gameplay, it looks like majority of abilities lock you in place in some way.

Having to burn dodge to cancel my animation shouldn't be a thing. Also actually HAVING to cancel animation (as in necessary to perform better), be it for more damage (ESO), or simply to gain control of your character also shouldn't be a thing.
I agree it can be useful in certain situations, and I'm all for having some sort of a way to stop your character from performing certain actions. I'd just do it differently, maybe by pressing the ability once again to cancel it, rather than burning dodge (idk just an idea I'm throwing out there). Also it should be limited to only certain skills like charge, for example.

With action-combat and animation-canceling in PvP situations, it just means you are primarily relying on great reactions, you need to spam many buttons (high APM gameplay). Rather than primarily relying on strategy, positioning, decision making (whether or not to cast certain ability, etc.).
Again, if I wanted to play this type of PvP, I'd play MOBAs, not MMORPGs.

Mag7spy wrote: »

If combat is fluid and god it shouldn't matter if an ability effects some of your movement, you the the direction fo your skill and you hit what you need to hit. Doesn't mean everything is use skill and you can only move forward in a straight line with every move that would feel clunky and not fluid. Having one skill that does do it could be a stronger move and feel a lot more impactful if you want it being more of a skill shot move.

Yet it does matter very much if my movement is constantly impacted by abilities.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You are missing the point i made earlier about fluid being the inbetween of those motions, how do skills connect together. Example when you do one skill in bdo, it flows good with another move almost feeling seamless, into being able to cancel that with a movement skill. The whole motion of your animation is important as you need to aim and move to hit your target it is all part of it. Everything together and then you can mention how things are fluid and work together. Again GCD or having a spell cast on your every skill is stuttering combat, you don't need to aim the skill you just hug the enemy and it goes off. It isn't the same as for example a dark knight using their dash skill where they deal dmg to enemies close to them, with you needing to move towards your target and when you deal dmg when you are in range as hit boxes are a thing.

I literally addressed this by saying "bdo skills are directional". The create the feeling of smoothness because your character moves with the skill and the whole combat design is built around idea. The aiming part is just difference between tab and action, I wouldn't really associate that with fluidity because NW had aiming too and I definitely do not remember that combat looking/feeling fluid.

And as I've said before, there's animation cancelation in tab games too (at the very least in L2). It feels more clunky mainly because the whole combat is planted (in the case of L2) so you can't do a movement cancel because the system itself isn't about movement. But even in that EQ2 assassin gameplay, to me, the combat looked fluid because you had skills flowing one to another w/o any real pauses and the character was constantly moving so it wasn't stationary combat (though to me even L2's combat can look fluid, but you'll disagree with that completely so whatever ).

Again, as I already said, perceived fluidity will always remain subjective, especially when it comes to discussions between people who haven't extensively played games from both sides of the discussion. And as others have said, you can't always just look at the video yelling "you see! you see! it looks like shit!", because most videos do not relate the feeling of gameplay and we base our subjective opinions about said gameplay by playing it. Though, obviously, these days most people just watch Asmon's reaction to some new mmo and base their entire attitude towards that game purely off of his words (that he himself bases purely on videos instead of gameplay). I personally dislike this trend, but what can you do.

I feel no matter how many times i explain this the points are getting skimmed over. Im going to explain this as technical as I can.

Tab (Im relating this to normal tab target games that work in this way generally which includes everquest.)

1. Skill use (response of use important)
2. Check for skill cast time.
3. Player controlled movement based on WASD
4. Detect if enemy is within range, if so skill is used on target
5. Targets defense (defense and evasion calculated to reduce or negate dmg) other effects happens as well that can proc with target.
6. Cooldown (global or cooldown skill)
7. Repeat from step one

Action
1. Skill use. (response of use important)
2. Character moves based on the animation of skill (fluidly important for player controls)
3. Does player use any animation cancels if so stop skill and use the new skill or dodge (response of use important and fluidity between skill use to cancel)
4. No animation cancels are used players skill is fully used in the motion. (fluidly important for player controls)
5. Check for amount of recovery time, if follow skill is used reduce recovery time (fluidly important for player controls even more important here as the two skills need to flow together and not feel like two separate actions)
6.Repeat at step 1
(ignoring the hit part on this as it just gets to large and that isn't needed for the point)

So above I mention the parts where response of use is important so when you use a skill que or not it responds quickly and does what you need it to do.

In the following with action though there are a lot more steps where fluidly becomes important when you are talking about use of skills and dodges. In tab your response on skill use is important but is not effecting the overall fluidity of the combat as you are simply telling your character what to do rather than dealing and controlling the animation with action combat. With that use of control is when a flag is actually raised about how fluid does this feel.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Having a bar before you can use a skill on almost skill is the same as GCD

No it isn't. Both of these systems each serve a VERY specific function.

If you are waiting 1.5 seconds before using a skill it works the same way as GCD its just slightly more dynamic if there is different times like some skills could be 1.2 seconds.

But humor me how is it different if you are both waiting.

A cast time is used to balance out a character, and make things harder to use. A 4 second cast time spell is much harder to use than a 1 second cast time spell. If you are casting a spell, you cant move, and you can be interrupted. As such, you can only use a longer casting spell when you know you dont need to move, and are not likely to be interrupted. A 4 spell that has a 4 second cast time is generally going to deal as much as 10 times the damage of a spell that has a 1 second cast time, but it will also have a longer cooldown.

A GCD on the other hand is triggered after a spell is cast, and is the time before you can cast a other spell. The purpose of this is so that players with high ping have a buffer in which they can have a spell queued up without it negatively impacting their in game performance.

A game with a GCD of 0.5 seconds (standard in the early to mid 2000's) means a player with a ping of 500 is at no material disadvantage in PvE to a player with a ping of 20. As long as the server recieves the data as to what ability the player wants to use next before that GCD buffer is up, it will go off at the same time regardless.

This is why GCD times got shorter in the late 2000's and early 2010's - connection speeds got faster so there wasnt the need for a 0.5 second GCD any more. As an aside, I have literally never seen a GCD longer than 0.5 seconds - your comment on them being g 1.5 second is once again leads me to question if you have any experience at all with tab target games

That said, if you have actually played as many MMO's as you claim, and if you knew even 5% of what you claim, you would know this actual basic information.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

As an aside, I have literally never seen a GCD longer than 0.5 seconds - your comment ts on them being g 1.5 second is once again leads me to question if you have any experience at all with tab target games

WoW's is 1.5 generally and FF14's is 2.5, so I'm sure there's other tabs that have a long one too, especially if they came out after WoW and decided to copy it to that extent.

Mag7spy wrote: »

In the following with action though there are a lot more steps where fluidly becomes important when you are talking about use of skills and dodges. In tab your response on skill use is important but is not effecting the overall fluidity of the combat as you are simply telling your character what to do rather than dealing and controlling the animation with action combat. With that use of control is when a flag is actually raised about how fluid does this feel.

Do you have any other action games that you consider as fluid as BDO? Cause I feel like BDO's directionally designed combat just completely fucked up game attitude for a lot of people (mainly you). I'm not saying that it's not fluid, but whatever fluidity it does have is definitely boosted by its design and if that kind of design is your preference - you gonna love it even more. And it's super obvious by now that it very much is your preference.

Mag7spy

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

Having a bar before you can use a skill on almost skill is the same as GCD

No it isn't. Both of these systems each serve a VERY specific function.

If you are waiting 1.5 seconds before using a skill it works the same way as GCD its just slightly more dynamic if there is different times like some skills could be 1.2 seconds.

But humor me how is it different if you are both waiting.

A cast time is used to balance out a character, and make things harder to use. A 4 second cast time.spell is much harder to use than a 1 second cast time spell. If you are casting a spell, you cant move, and you can be interrupted. As such, you can only use a longer casting spell when you know you dont need to move, and are not likely to be interrupted. A 4 spell that has a 4 second cast time is generally going to deal as much as 10 times the damage of a spell that has a 1 second cast time, but it will also have a longer cooldown.

A GCD on the other hand is triggered after a spell is cast, and is the time before you can cast a other spell. The purpose of this is so that players with high ping have a buffer in which they can have a spell queued up without it negatively impacting their in game performance.

A game with a GCD of 0.5 seconds (standard in the early to mid 2000's) means a player with a ping of 500 is at no material disadvantage in PvE to a player with a ping of 20. As long as the server recieves the data as to what ability the player wants to use next before that GCD buffer is up, it will go off at the same time regardless.

This is why GCD times got shorter in the late 2000's and early 2010's - connection speeds got faster so there wasnt the need for a 0.5 second GCD any more. As an aside, I have literally never seen a GCD longer than 0.5 seconds - your comment ts on them being g 1.5 second is once again leads me to question if you have any experience at all with tab target games

That said, if you have actually played as many MMO's as you claim, and if you knew even 5% of what you claim, you would know this actual basic information.

Typical of your bias showing bringing up things that don't don't change anything .5 or one second it doesn't matter my point still remains on staggered combat without a need for flow between skills as it pauses. You are bringing up numbers that don't mean anything to a conversation with exact timing to the rough number i through out. Cast time isn't limited to just mages

You are also making me seriously doubt if you even know what you are talking about with the game anymore. Your mind set is I need to defend everquest 2 no matter what , this is the only good combat system, this is what i played for years kind of head cannon. Cast tiem is not limited to spells, you clearly have a cast time for skills as well that can can move while you are doing it. I don't use the cast time as in im only talking about spells, you have cast time in relation to move your moves, which to me is the same as GCD as they both function is pretty much the same way. You have a gap where you can't do anything constantly most of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR4qAR6RRN4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVtMuZQJW7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx5V33rU8uk

So I'm going to take it by this point you are trying to spin a false narrative that only spell casters have cast times and have to stand still. Because you desperately want to prove your point. If you wait between skills and need to wait between GCD it is the same thing you both wait between skills. Seriously why are you arguing on this if you played the game for years and did 400 dungeons this should be basic knowledge for you...And don't come at me with some skills don't have a bar on it, I've already mentioned in points a few skills do that but that is not the majority.

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

As an aside, I have literally never seen a GCD longer than 0.5 seconds - your comment ts on them being g 1.5 second is once again leads me to question if you have any experience at all with tab target games

WoW's is 1.5 generally and FF14's is 2.5, so I'm sure there's other tabs that have a long one too, especially if they came out after WoW and decided to copy it to that extent.

Mag7spy wrote: »

In the following with action though there are a lot more steps where fluidly becomes important when you are talking about use of skills and dodges. In tab your response on skill use is important but is not effecting the overall fluidity of the combat as you are simply telling your character what to do rather than dealing and controlling the animation with action combat. With that use of control is when a flag is actually raised about how fluid does this feel.

Do you have any other action games that you consider as fluid as BDO? Cause I feel like BDO's directionally designed combat just completely fucked up game attitude for a lot of people (mainly you). I'm not saying that it's not fluid, but whatever fluidity it does have is definitely boosted by its design and if that kind of design is your preference - you gonna love it even more. And it's super obvious by now that it very much is your preference.

BDO is the best one imo, I didn't play Elyon enough to get pass the p2w and bad aspects of it. New world is an example of things feeling clunky with over animation locks and no good movement. I didn't play tera enough just didn't really get it not hat for more then a hour as I was playing other games at that point.

The thing about BDO is you need to look past everything in the game and just look at the skills and flow of them. Ignore the effects, the aoe, etc. Break it down to how does it feel to use these skills together with being fluid and it gives you a better idea. Action mmorpg are still young, there will be issues that pop up and there will be a lot of strengths with it. The whole mmorpg genre has been kind of stalling and its true action hasn't been taking to its limits in PvE content I would say. NWO is the closest to that compared to other games (granted my lack of experience with tera). So as more games come out and show what they can do we wil get a better idea.

Action combat is 100% more difficult and requires much more work to get it right and feeling well. And that isn't enough to spend the time getting that well and working, you need to have all the other thigns that make a great mmorpg as well. Which BDO lacks a lot in that department and always will imo.

Mag7spy

Also I'm one of the biggest BDO haters, its just sad I need to defend parts on it lol. With my dislike for it being fair granted I gave it the best chance i could give a mmorpg. I could say plenty of bad elements on it, but if we are talking about only the fluidity of combat that is the standard. That doesn't mean you are copying them and having hard animation locks on everything you can do half that and have more movement and great animations.

I guess that best question I can ask to be more fair is what makes EQ 2 fluid, what makes eq2 a potential benchmark on how to make a game fluid? As much as I've played tab games I have certain expectations from them that come with all games and if that is a expectation I don't see that as being something fluid I see it as more a necessity for that game. Example if ability que was considered making a game more fluid (very well could be) I don't see that as making the combat more fluid i just see that as a feature that is necessity so that came doesn't feel clunky. but because that doesn't feel clunky doesn't mean combat is not fluid as I explained on what makes something fluid between combat and tab lacks the in-betweens as they are GCD, skill cast time with EQ2 even more so.

NishUK

Azherae wrote: »

I just wanna say that while I absolutely agree with you, I mean 1000% agree with you...

This isn't because of BDO's combat.

Not even the whole 'this is basically AoE spam burn-down'.

I hope we can at least move past the concept that BDO's COMBAT is the reason you don't feel connected to the character. BDO's ability to immerse the player is so low that they have reworked their own main starter story 9 times and only now is it even remotely beginning to have a effect.

That is not a Combat issue, though.

Good post.

I'm ready to throw me weight into the ring at any dork slamming BDO improperly.....seems like the only fun thing to do, how did this thread even get so large christ boys...

Mag7spy

One more post x.x @NiKr

When people say BDO is clunky as they haven't played for a large amount of time that is understandable. I should be a bit more fair if someone feels like that because for it to not feel clunky you can't button mash and you have to know what you are doing and how all your skills work to get to that skill ceiling. There are certain skills you don't use or lock as they are bad and useless, and some skills you don't just use randomly unless its for a reason if it makes you stand still. You want to use mainly mobile skills until you catch someone.

You could make a game that has the good elemtns of BDo combat without having the high skill level which would make it more accessible and fun for everyone to play. And you won't have as much of that clunky feeling as you start to play it as well. And hybrid should solve most those issues or bring it more towards that direction with how tab skills will work to begin with.

Mag7spy

Cause it feels more like general chat of tab vrs action, and cause i respond to everyone kind of.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

You could make a game that has the good elemtns of BDo combat without having the high skill level which would make it more accessible and fun for everyone to play. And you won't have as much of that clunky feeling as you start to play it as well. And hybrid should solve most those issues or bring it more towards that direction with how tab skills will work to begin with.

Ashes not having a gcd in its combat was also one of the reasons I got hyped for it. Dunno if GW2 or other hybrids have it, but when I heard that Ashes didn't I knew I'd have way more chances to like it (on top of an already huge bias towards its systems).

Mag7spy

NiKr wrote: »

Mag7spy wrote: »

You could make a game that has the good elemtns of BDo combat without having the high skill level which would make it more accessible and fun for everyone to play. And you won't have as much of that clunky feeling as you start to play it as well. And hybrid should solve most those issues or bring it more towards that direction with how tab skills will work to begin with.

Ashes not having a gcd in its combat was also one of the reasons I got hyped for it. Dunno if GW2 or other hybrids have it, but when I heard that Ashes didn't I knew I'd have way more chances to like it (on top of an already huge bias towards its systems).

I don't remember that with GW2 even back in the early days they have limited abilities as well so it wouldn't make sense. I know some of your skills have cast times but that is fine in all mmorpgs (as long as its not on every single skill). Of course the point would be the same if mage classes had like 50% skill cast times, compared to a warrior class that has none. The warrior would just feel more fluid.

I have a good feeling about ashes combat, they know what they want to do, have a good sign on direction. Now its about just making all the content and testing it with all aspects of the hybrid system. Then they can start to polish after that and get some good animations in, effects and balance.

Just want their bench mark to be high on the standard and quality they are aiming for with combat.

Ludullu

Mag7spy wrote: »

I know some of your skills have cast times but that is fine in all mmorpgs (as long as its not on every single skill). Of course the point would be the same if mage classes had like 50% skill cast times, compared to a warrior class that has none. The warrior would just feel more fluid.

I have a good feeling about ashes combat, they know what they want to do, have a good sign on direction. Now its about just making all the content and testing it with all aspects of the hybrid system. Then they can start to polish after that and get some good animations in, effects and balance.

Again though, action games have cast times too. And even in the last Ashes stream, that hammer skill had an almost 2 second cast time. Would you call that a tab ability? And Ashes won't have animation canceling so you'll have to spend those whole 2 seconds casting that hammer attack. And that's as a warrior! And whirlwind attack seems to be around 4 seconds of unbreakable animation.

So if you love BDO's animation cancelling so much, you might not really like AoC's combat, if they continue with this kind of pace of battle.

Takemybooty

LOL, well you probably have to find a new game, nobody is going to cater to your selfishness.

Noaani

Mag7spy wrote: »

I don't use the cast time as in im only talking about spells, you have cast time in relation to move your moves, which to me is the same as GCD as they both function is pretty much the same way.

I'm not sure what your issue here.

Spells and melee abilities all function exactly the same in terms of cast time, cooldown and GCD in a tab target game. While I may use the word "spell" or "ability", functionally, these are the same things from a mechanics perspective - at least in relation to this topic.

I'm not trying to say EQ2 is the greatest, all I am here doing is correcting your mistakes. If you stop making mistakes, I'd have nothing to say here.

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