Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Honest question here my dude, is English your second (or third) language?
If it is, that would explain why you are always missing context and qualifies that people are using. Your grasp of the language seems to otherwise be generally fine.
If it is not, then, um... ok.
Jump on the game lets see you pvp some then we can see what is bs.
Trying to save face by running, smart....
I mean, I am only repeating what I have been saying on these forums for years.
BDO is a shit game, and I will not install it on my computer.
It would seem you are the one that is trying to save face (you are the one that is in a position where this may be desired) by saying "hey, you, person that has made me look like a fool for days now, how about you go and do a thing you have said you won't ever do in order to prove you are... " I don't know, what ever it is you think this would prove.
Again, you are literarily diluted.
Funny you are looking pretty foolish for me having some of the worst takes people would not agree with. First they would be like why would i play that "shit" game EQ2 it looks bad and boring. Second you make some really unexperienced takes as its clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
You haven't proved a single thing, can't and it doesn't exist, all you can do is whine there is 700 dungeons in eq 2 that are all unique and hard and its a fun game. But you can't show a single piece of evidence, talk about mechanics, show any kind of pvp except cry about the pvp that is shown. honestly you have to be stupid if you think just being disrespectful counts as evidence, but here we are lmao.
Also your opinion is literarily diluted with bias yes i agree, you don't care about making a better game you care about having a next EQ. Guess it must have been fun to get carried in eq, you aren't anything special after all.
You are making up people in your head again.
I can point this out to you by reminding you that as soon as a bunch of people appear to say that you are wrong, that they don't agree with you, etc, you feel 'like people are using numbers to gang up on you'.
This is not surprising, but do remember that your mental state may suffer if you 'convince yourself you have broad support' and then realize that you do not.
Again with you not being able to actually comprehend.
I'm going to ask it again, and I am serious, is English your second or third language? Like, no problems if it is, you comprehend it well enough. You just honestly don't seem to comprehend it well enough to be a native speaker. Just the simple number of times you have made claims as to what others have said in the past, and been so far off what they said, simply by getting one or two words wrong. A native speaker should know that an individual word wrong can change the meaning of something greatly.
When I say people I do not mean echo chamber with a tiny group of active people agree with each other on a forum to back their desire as they are similar and they want to gatekeep. There are plenty of people on the forum that would disagree and have about tab combat vs. action combat. There are even more people that are not on the forum or do not comment as well. And as more things pick up on the forum more people will come and have their own views not akin to yours or mine.
You are also someone that has extremely bad takes, and I've seen enough that you also take a much more hostile / thinking you can't be wrong stance.
That's fine. My point is to be careful. I am now much more sympathetic to the type of problem you seem to have/display, and I have been taught that it can sometimes help to have someone check/point it out to you while it's happening in case this allows you to dial it back, particularly doing so while saving face.
As long as you can achieve this, that was the only reason for my comment.
I'll only clarify one thing to you, I don't know if it will change how you perceive something. Would you prefer to just talk to 'one person out of the group you consider an echo chamber', or would you prefer to have to deal with all of them at all times?
I would expect it to be tiresome, even for you, to have to respond to the number of posts if 'everyone in a group who thought you were wrong ended up talking'. Are you moreso the "bring them all on, I'll take all comers" style?
You don't understand nuance and are trying to use it as some sort of evidence like what I'm saying is meant to be a quote.
Is talking shit your first language on a forum you definitely owned the lack of respect part? Its just really really sad, how you can't back up your points so you get mad and talk garbage. If its not my way that isn't gameplay -insert angry crying-. You really showed up to a forum to try to push EQ2 gameplay that no one wants or plays" What is that term you use again o ya its a "shit" game.
If I consider a small group of people a echo chamber in a forum of many other people and it is still growing. The most important thing to do is to challenge and if there are reasonable people you will have a good discussion that won't be toxic. If they are unreasonable they will band together, agree on points even if they don't understand, be toxic and be stubborn together while ignoring any points against their beliefs or what they want. If its the later it doesn't really matter you can be toxic that is fine and have more hostile takes against ideas rather then listening to what people say and having a more open minded discussion. But in time a very small group is just a minor voice compared to the many other people that will comment.
Only at that point will you understand, what you or I want isn't what matters it is what the majority of people want that are playing and paying for the game.
I'll try again.
My reason for engaging you, ever, is that I'm the 'nice' one who will empathize with you and put up with your nonsense, out of my group.
If I am doing it, others are fine with leaving it to me instead of coming to call you out themselves. It is my role to be the one talking.
Do you prefer to deal with just me, or all of them? I would expect that since you have to actually write a post of that style and length most of the time, it would become exhausting.
Don't have a comment on this its up to people what kind of conversation they want to have be it bias, or understanding people even if they don't agree, you talk sweet garbage because they choose they don't have "respect" for the person anymore.
Very well, I will continue to act as Voice, IF you have a 'Heroic Me against the world mentality', I will continue to be...
I do not want to worsen any related issue if it exists. Unfortunately this means I have to talk more, so, I request a favor.
Stop dismissing things I say on a personal level only. It is one of the things that makes others 'want to post anyway'.
Note, I am not TELLING you to do this. I am not telling you what to do. I am not insinuating that you would not absolutely handle talking to more people. I am asking a favor.
Also, you are completely misunderstanding why I am even talking about EQ2 here. I am not trying to push for more gameplay akin to EQ2.
In fact, I am on record many, many times on these forums as having said that anything we discuss here will have literally no effect on the finished game - nor should it. We are having a discussion among ourselves, not with Intrepid.
When this is your mindset - as most posters around here know is mine - you literally can not push for any kind of gameplay to be added to Ashes.
As such, I generally talk about EQ2 in order to draw comparisons for people that never had the chance to play it. While the game is live now, the time investment needed for someone to be able to experience the top end content of that game is astronomical. As such, I explain what the games top end content was like, so that people get an understanding that the type of gameplay they are familiar with isn't the only type of gameplay that exists.
However, in this specific thread, my point always was that tab target combat is better for top end PvE, simply because tab target combat leaves players free to do more, which leaves the developers free to add more to the encounter. They can add things to an encounter in tab target that they can't add in action, because in action people are too busy with the combat system.
This is a position I have had for many years, and is one shared by many game developers. I have a habit of reading white papers on game development - hence me finding the joke of literary dilution (someone that has read very little) amusing. It is a generally held fact that you can't overload players, so the more you give them to do in one system (the combat system), the less you can give them in another system (the encounter).
The funny thing about you wanting examples of this is that the above just holds true in literally everything. If I have a 10 liter bucket that I need to fill with two liquids, and I have two 8 liter buckets of those other liquids, once I have 2 liters of one liquid in my bucket, the more I then continue to put in to that 10 liter bucket, the less of the second liquid I can pour in.
This is the exact same concept.
That is not something that needs an example, that is something that (at least where I live) people learn when they are about 4.
You not understanding it is just... odd. It's as if you simply do not want to understand it, because understanding it will in some way cause you harm (in this case, having to rethink the notion that action is always best).
I don't expect you to ever accept this, because you are not here to learn. You are here because TEAM ACTION COMBAT needs a champion, in your eyes, and since that's your team, you are going to fight blindly for the cause.
You are so disingenuous, I can see it in so many of your post. I'm unsure why you are typing out a giant paragraph I'm going redoing this loop again with you. I've made my comments already, others have as well but you are too stubborn to think how to take it work as you already set in your mind its impossible. Which is going to continue the loop of you saying more and more stupid insults and we responding.
Any reasonable person would think action combat is in the game, so rather then thinking its impossible they would think how it can work and pushing it as far as possible in a discussion while raising some concerns they have. Right off the bat you didn't care for the discussion or thinking about possibilities so it leads to nothing but an argument.
What the hell even is this argument you are making?
I am going to require myself here - this is from the post of mine you literally just quoted. You seem to think I am arguing for what Ashes should or should not be. I'm not. I never have. I've never even suggested that I am.
You seriously need to learn comprehension.
You are getting so worked up because you are assuming people are making arguments that they are not in fact making.
Like, seriously, how many times have people (not just myself) had to pull you up over this in the last few days?
It doesn't help that you are responding to posts without even reading them.
Reasonable people start by addressing assumptions and priors, and those must often be discussed or argued first.
That's where we still are relative to that Tab vs Action Raid thing. Your presence would have been requested in the other thread.
People argue with you when you challenge their priors, or bring information that shows you don't understand their priors.
Maybe we can focus on something that is very direct and that we can actually progress on, in that case. You have one prior that is provably wrong, and I for one would like you to accept that it is provably wrong. It has nothing to do with Action or Tab. Just one thing.
You have stated that you believe 'All Raid bosses/enemies have a pattern, it isn't just chaos'.
This is not true, and until you are clear that it is not true, it's difficult to have that reasonable discussion you mentioned. Now, if you meant 'All Raid bosses/enemies should have a pattern", that's different, but you should accept that there are games, specifically popular games, where there are scenarios like this with no pattern, so that we can have a discussion.
You are so disingenuous its actually insane, you literarily have said people will use tab over action combat for high end raids and have stated it is impossible to make action combat work in high end. As i stated you can't coming from a discussion point you are coming from tab target only point.
We are on a 30+ page post with too many topics to call out any one with now everything is lost in all the pages. Yet you are saying you are not arguing on ashes, yet you talk about what makes a good mmo or what is right or wrong in your opinion, while on a ashes forums. So if ashes is to be good mmo since you are invested naturally you would care and comment on and want things to lean towards a certain direction. I'd believe you if you don't take a bias approach and has more meaningful conversations with theory on how things could be done plus with your own experience. Instead of building a conversation you imo try to shut it down with words like impossible. Also keep chatting shit online one of the most pathetic things I've seen.
Every raid boss has patterns that is just how it is you are trying to stretch things to make it make sense with your point because you don't want to be wrong. A boss encounter does things, has stages of mechanics and you know what to expect and to plan for. Phase one does attack a,b,c. Phase two this mech and attack a,c. Phase three these three mechs attack a,b,c,d,e.
Bosses don't suddenly do new attacks, you look at guides you see what it does you are good. Then you just practice till you are use to the attack patterns and motions and work towards beating the raid.
So to be clear, you are unable to grasp this specific prior?
I have given you an example of a boss that does not have a pattern before. You incorrectly concluded that the boss did have a pattern based on something you didn't understand, and dismissed it.
Jormungand does not have a pattern to its offensive attacks or actions. Jormungand 'gains a single empowered move at 25% health', what you would call 'phase 2'.
Jormungand can quickly devolve into chaos if it randomly does certain moves too often or 'randomly starts just casting spells all the time' instead of using physical attacks.
Your perception is incorrect.
You gave one example in a very old game and I mentioned one pattern it does based on the site regardless if you like it or not.
Give me an examples in Final Fantasy XIV if you can show me a pattern a lot of bosses are chaotic then I'll agree with you if the guides seem to show it is hard to do one for them or better impossible.
So only examples that match your experience count? I'm unclear.
You looked at a single site that specifically says 'Sporadically uses Horrid Roar 3x in a row below 25%'.
spo·rad·i·cal·ly
/spəˈradək(ə)lē/
Learn to pronounce
adverb
occasionally or at irregular intervals.
"he worked sporadically at part-time jobs"
I don't mind if you want to switch to 'there are no modern games where high level bosses are chaotic'. I don't mind if you want to switch to 'Ok so some games have chaotic bosses but Ashes won't'.
90% of bosses in FFXI work this same way. It's part of the game's design. You are free to claim 'that game is too old to count' or 'Ashes won't be like that', but not 'Games aren't made like that'. Understand?
The whole point is normal game design doesn't do things like that there is one offs time to time but very rare and uncommon. I know the sleeper in EQ wasn't really meant to be beat id say those are one of those rare exception of chaotic mechanics.
I absolutely understand you, but we are trying to align priors.
Here.
Raid mechanics
Raids contain intricate combat mechanics.[13]
Multiple phase boss fights.[13]
Adds.[13]
Random oriented skill usage.[13]
Telegraphed animations, but no obvious telegraphed templates on the ground.[13]
Fights will require location, mobility and strategy.[13]
Combat itself will be pretty intricate mechanics-wise. We're going to have different phases of the bosses, there's going to be a lot of adds stuff, there's going to be random oriented skill usage. We're not going to have telegraphed templates on the ground, but we will have telegraphed animations, so it's going to be location, mobility, strategic. It will be something that can not be repeatable in the exact same way from raid to raid, but has a variance between the combat, so raiders are going to have to be fluid in thinking on their feet.[13] – Steven Sharif
Now please pay careful attention to this next part because I otherwise I will just have to repeat it over and over.
1. Ashes has a lot of EQ devs, boss skills are random in EQ.
2. Ashes' former Lead Designer has played FFXI. Boss skills are random in FFXI.
3. The quote above is from Steven himself. There are additional quotes that further reinforce this potential approach to design.
It does not matter if it would be an outlier to do it that way if Ashes is planning to do it that way.
I will repeat this entire section as many times as it takes for you to understand the design of Ashes as it is currently known to exist.
This isn't chaotic to me this is normal o.O.
Now if they do this
Adds
-random types of adds strong and weak with completely random abilities every time you redo the raid
-Skill use always generates different effects from raid to raid so different danger zones, effects etc to the point you can never plan for it and having a substantial effect on the raid (sleep where you need to be hit to wake up, electric effect you need to do a mechanics to avoid, fire you need to do a different mechanics to avoid) if they had about 10+ of these it would feel very chaotic and unpredictable to counter,
If something is very chaotic strategy isn't going to be something easy as it will be more reaction based then strategy. The core of having very chaotic elements with mechanics and all isn't a good design at the raid becomes RNG which is frustrating cause you have no control over being killed or not. Though if they leaned more heavy on the action side and you had mobility this would be a little more fair.
This sounds about right on what I'd expect, and doesn't sound chaotic to me. But there will be a lot less hand holding.
Ok, let me try again so that I can see if I understand what you're saying.
If I tell you that a boss casts a big damage spell, and while you are healing just randomly starts casting it again, is this chaotic?
Assume that the same boss could just randomly start casting the same spell AGAIN as soon as the cooldown timer is up, instead of using any other more 'fair' ability.
Assume that the boss could just 'literally never cast that spell and spend the entire raid messing with your tanks and stopping them from holding hate so that your entire Alliance might be killed by a single attack due to incorrect positioning without you even being able to react to it'.
Is this chaotic?
If not, what exactly is your definition of 'chaotic'?