Glorious Alpha Two Testers!

Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here

If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.

Cosmetic Shop is P2W

13468917

Comments

  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Look, at the end of the day.... this is the easiest place to farm likes in the forums. Just stop by, leave a reasonable post stating why you disagree with the OP, and boom. 2-5 likes right there.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »

    Singular truth doesn’t work in our day and age

    Wow
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Singular truth doesn’t work in our day and age, buddy life is full of perspectives.

    "I like what I think"
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • NiKr wrote: »
    Iridianny is just combining her own gameplay style with the game's intended gameplay, then applies her view of cosmetics empowering her gameplay and produces the result of "store cosmetics can directly influence the gameplay of the game which is why they're p2w".

    Crow did a good joke about it. For Iridianny, as it seems to me, the visual presentation of her character is the most important part of the game. And any and all activities in the game are (or at least might be) directed at changing/improving said visual. Any other form of gameplay is secondary, which is why the impact of story cosmetics is the biggest on her.

    I'd assume that in her eyes being a king means having a proper attire to go along with the mechanical/gameplay side of literally being a king in Ashes. And if there was a super cool store cosmetic that looked exactly like a king should look like (there was one a few months back btw, the one with the corgi) - then a King player who has said cosmetic is now a "better king" when compared to any other king in the game.

    I'd assume Iridianny claims that you don't know how mmorpgs are played because in her social bubble her pov is highly valued and is seeing as the "right" way to play. And due to said bubble she feels justified to call store cosmetics p2w, because to her social groups they truly are that. I'd assume @Dygz could see her pov much better than any of us cause I think he's quite deep in RP too. He might not agree with her views on the matter, but I'd assume he at least understands where she's coming from.

    But as for anyone outside of said bubble, I'm not sure any of them would give a flying fuck about how the King looks if said King can just make anyone the enemy of the state (though it's the mayor who does that, but let's forget about that for now) and/or make his guild attack some dude on sight. And this was the reason for Crow's joke. The functionality of any given mechanic is in no way hampered by the visual presentation of the one who controls the mechanic, and it could be seen as humorous if you assume (as Iridianny does) that it is.

    Or, well, that's at least what I took away from this particular thread and the other messages I've seen Iridianny write. I might've completely misunderstood her (she said as much several times now sooooo).

    Like you said, it’s a matter of perspective and how you play the game. Notice not once did I ever say that my way of playing is superior or “the right way” but many people have said that to me.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Lets use this video example to explain gameplay vs graphics.

    The gameplay mechanics are the stats of each item.
    The graphics are how each one looks.

    They are not the same
    vcc0pei5dbf9.png


  • Penguin, the appearance collection is literally a feature and a gameplay mechanic or they wouldn’t have written it into the code and all the gear would look the same.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Look, at the end of the day.... this is the easiest place to farm likes in the forums. Just stop by, leave a reasonable post stating why you disagree with the OP, and boom. 2-5 likes right there.
    xnx623mj1fdv.png
    I want to thank the academy this thread for bringing me to the peak of likeability o:)
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »

    No I’m not?

    Yes you are.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »

    Penguin, the appearance collection is literally a feature and a gameplay mechanic or they wouldn’t have written it into the code and all the gear would look the same.

    Just google the definition of mechanic bro-man-guy. It doesnt mean "exists in game"
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »

    Penguin, the appearance collection is literally a feature and a gameplay mechanic or they wouldn’t have written it into the code and all the gear would look the same.

    Tis a feature. Tis not a mechanic. Nothing would change mechanically if you took every cosmetic out and played with polygon models
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Like you said, it’s a matter of perspective and how you play the game. Notice not once did I ever say that my way of playing is superior or “the right way” but many people have said that to me.
    But you've tried bending multiple different commonly and widely accepted definitions of particular things to your own side in order to just even begin to support your argument. While everyone else has been trying to tell you that you can't have your own definition of things that impact other people.
    Iridianny wrote: »
    Penguin, the appearance collection is literally a feature and a gameplay mechanic or they wouldn’t have written it into the code and all the gear would look the same.
    But that's the thing, we don't know if that has been coded into the game. The "collect all things" is a feature that you yourself have imposed on yourself.

    And this was exactly why I asked whether you'd see store cosmetics as p2w if Intrepid explicitly stated that you don't need them to complete your cosmetics collection.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Tis a feature. Tis not a mechanic. Nothing would change mechanically if you took every cosmetic out and played with polygon models
    One thing would change. The game would fucking die. Cause it'd be going against pretty much all common sense conventions of game development. The closest thing to a "polygon-looking fella" of a game is probably OSRS, but I'd say it's just a unicorn in the world of horses.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    One thing would change. The game would fucking die. Cause it'd be going against pretty much all common sense conventions of game development. The closest thing to a "polygon-looking fella" of a game is probably OSRS, but I'd say it's just a unicorn in the world of horses.

    If they took out all cosmetics and replaced everything in game to general shapes and poligons, just to end Iridianny's argument. I would life time subscribe.

  • If they took out all cosmetics and replaced everything in game to general shapes and poligons, just to end Iridianny's argument. I would life time subscribe.

    Wow, I didn’t realize I held so much significance in your life…
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    One thing would change. The game would fucking die. Cause it'd be going against pretty much all common sense conventions of game development. The closest thing to a "polygon-looking fella" of a game is probably OSRS, but I'd say it's just a unicorn in the world of horses.

    I mean there's mine craft, but I agree. My point is distinguishing between gameplay and graphics. Cosmetics are graphics, and graphics don't make you better at the mechanics of a game. Therefore buying cosmetics is not pay to win as they don't provide an advantage mechanically
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    Iridianny wrote: »

    Wow, I didn’t realize I held so much significance in your life…

    I mean, i dont have much to do, and you are quite the passionate woman
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If you cant tell, ive just been here for the lol's since you've decided not to defend you own points. Dont take it too seriously.
  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »

    Singular truth doesn’t work in our day and age, buddy life is full of perspectives. Now I looked up the definition of pay to win before I posted this and it all seems fairly subjective. Regardless, I based my post off the consensus and how it can be applied.

    Yeah but perspectives are just flawed perceptions of a singular truth. Although I get the feeling you're one of those people who would rant on twitter about "your truth" like that isn't an oxymoron (in your case, with special emphasis on the second half of the word).

    So you're saying you looked up the actual definition and said: Nah, doesn't fit with my view of things, hence it's subjective. Let me go ahead and post my own subjective definition. They'll have to accept my truth or be be told they're not reading or are idiots with nothing to contribute, once they inevitably refute it."
    Sig-ult-2.png
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    edited August 2022
    Asgerr wrote: »

    Yeah but perspectives are just flawed perceptions of a singular truth. Although I get the feeling you're one of those people who would rant on twitter about "your truth" like that isn't an oxymoron (in your case, with special emphasis on the second half of the word).

    So you're saying you looked up the actual definition and said: Nah, doesn't fit with my view of things, hence it's subjective. Let me go ahead and post my own subjective definition. They'll have to accept my truth or be be told they're not reading or are idiots with nothing to contribute, once they inevitably refute it."

    I don't use social media and I actually do believe in some singular truths it was kind of a joke to the current day n age... but regardless I don't know if I agree with a singular truth being applied to the definition of "pay to win" on a roleplaying game with multiple progression paths and subjective ways to enjoy the game. Seems like because the game's experience is subjective, so would be the p2w for different types of players. I've actually never called anyone an idiot on this thread, and I haven't pushed my perspective by claiming it was the "right" one either. Those are false accusations and things people have done to me, and you seem to conveniently ignore that point. I am simply not changing my mind on the matter when I haven't heard anything that has changed my perspective and if that really bothers you, it's a personal issue.
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Iridianny wrote: »

    I don't use social media and I actually do believe in some singular truths it was kind of a joke to the current day n age... but regardless I don't know if I agree with a singular truth being applied to the definition of "pay to win" on a roleplaying game with multiple progression paths and subjective ways to enjoy the game. Seems like because the game's experience is subjective, so would be the p2w for different types of players. I've actually never called anyone an idiot on this thread, and I haven't pushed my perspective by claiming it was the "right" one either. Those are false accusations and things people have done to me, and you seem to conveniently ignore that point. I am simply not changing my mind on the matter when I haven't heard anything that has changed my perspective and if that really bothers you, it's a personal issue.

    Yeah man. We're all just here for the vibes.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Yeah man. We're all just here for the vibes.
    And the free food likes! Don't forget about the free likes!
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    And the free food likes! Don't forget about the free likes!

    Where the hell are my likes? The OP still hasn't made a valid argument against my comments on mechanics.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »

    Where the hell are my likes? The OP still hasn't made a valid argument against my comments on mechanics.

    What your lacking is word amount it would seem. Ive been looking through my posts in the thread, and people seem to be liking the posts that are at least a paragraph or so. You gotta put the effort in if you want those fake points
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    Dolyem wrote: »
    Where the hell are my likes? The OP still hasn't made a valid argument against my comments on mechanics.
    Your life's a mechanic! Hah! Gotteeeem! B)
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2022

    What your lacking is word amount it would seem. Ive been looking through my posts in the thread, and people seem to be liking the posts that are at least a paragraph or so. You gotta put the effort in if you want those fake points

    But this argument doesn't need that much effort to show it is wrong. ☹️

    Hell even if we played devils advocate and pretended it was correct, it would still be irrelevant due to cosmetics being purchasable for the last couple years.
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    Singular truth doesn’t work in our day and age

    Translated : I can change any definition to what I want so I'm right since it is more important to be ignorant than say they are right.
  • DolyemDolyem Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    Your life's a mechanic! Hah! Gotteeeem! B)

    Gahd damn, ya got meh
    GJjUGHx.gif
  • PenguinPaladinPenguinPaladin Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2022
    So to try and be reasonable and a bit more on actual topic.

    I dont mind you opinion, that the shops bad. I share that thought.

    I understand your stance against transmog, i share it.

    I dont see cosmetic skins as p2w under any circumstances. And other than them being a part of the game you find important, you havnt explained to me how they give someone an upperhand over you.

    I find it hard to talk with you with how standoffish you seem to be, and your unwillingness to actually discuss your points, or clearify things. Your saying, ive said it before go find it, in a forum with countless threads is in no means friendly or helpful. And after being ran in circles for a while by your arguments, reason is easily lost. But looking at your other posts in general, the forums are very hostile to you.

    Im not going to say you do or do not deserve hostility, because i just glimpsed through a few posts... but the way most people here seem to phrase their thoughts under some circumstances is pretty gross. So im going to apologize on my part, but im also going to empathize, you are very standoffish, and unreasonable now, to the point its very hard to discuss things.
  • IridiannyIridianny Member
    edited August 2022
    So to try and be reasonable and a bit more on actual topic.

    I dont mind you opinion, that the shops bad. I share that thought.

    I understand your stance against transmog, i share it.

    I dont see cosmetic skins as p2w under any circumstances. And other than them being a part of the game you find important, you havnt explained to me how they give someone an upperhand over you.

    I find it hard to talk with you with how standoffish you seem to be, and your unwillingness to actually discuss your points, or clearify things. Your saying, ive said it before go find it, in a forum with countless threads is in no means friendly or helpful. And after being ran in circles for a while by your arguments, reason is easily lost. But looking at your other posts in general, the forums are very hostile to you.

    Im not going to say you do or do not deserve hostility, because i just glimpsed through a few posts... but the way most people here seem to phrase their thoughts under some circumstances is pretty gross. So im going to apologize on my part, but im also going to empathize, you are very standoffish, and unreasonable now, to the point its very hard to discuss things.

    I thought you weren't even here for discussion just "the vibes"? I am glad we have some mutual ground, many people have agreed that selling cosmetics is "evil" even though they concede them to be a "necessary evil."
    As for upperhand, I am not even sure what that means given there are multiple progression paths and ways to play a roleplaying game. A point that has been consistently ignored. I am not a super competitive person, so this idea of the upperhand doesn't really affect me nor was it my point. As I said, paying for part of the gameplay that otherwise could be achievable in game is p2w. Again, a matter of perspective that competition is what fuels you in an rpg where as for some it's roleplaying in a community, and for others it's adventuring in a fantasy world, etc.
    Honestly, if people pay for max level it doesn't really affect how other individuals play the game themselves, there will always be max levels ahead of you unless you are the first... and by that point it wont matter how those who are also max level alongside you got there...
    So, I think most people are bothered by that idea simply because it is paying extra to not play the game. However, really those people just play the game differently than others. They don't see questing as the game, but rather end game content. (not that I agree with pay for max level just to clarify)
    & I have discussed and clarified so much, I really don't see my "unwillingness." Unless you are referring to me saying that I don't care to convince you, because that's still true. And yes, I am perhaps standoffish for the reason that I don't cower down when, as you can see, many people have been very hostile, aggressive, and sometimes just verbally abusive for me simply sharing opinions and ideas. I appreciate your apology.
Sign In or Register to comment.