I didn't read this whole mess but I will add two comments:
1. Some Players are too attached to "gear" to the point that it is a play or consider quitting if lost scenario. I would rather have all gear craftable by players and have gear not be so "power level defining. Then it's not THE END if you lose it.
2. @boogis On the other hand, since the goal is to "Not Build a Gank Box" you really can't expect Intrepid to over encourage ganking, now can you? Full loot all the time will do just that. Intrepid seems to want a balance between hardcore PVPers and PVP averse players. The games with PVP that actually last seem to be the ones that don't drive away all the sheep until only wolves are left and they slowly die.
full loot only incentives ganking. I think it's a fair risk for the gankers to be actually the ones to be able to lose their stuff not the ganked ones.
@CylverRayne well said. You beat me to it. The developers have already said this game will not be a full loot game. Boogis if you're searching for a more realistic game or survival game, there are plenty out there. However this game won't be one of those. This game will not be for everyone. If all you care about is killing other people with no risk to yourself to reap the rewards they worked hard for whether it be crafting, raiding, PvE, or PvP; then you might seek other avenues or games to spend your time in. This game will be devastating for you and I simply don't think you'll recover from it.
On another note, Boogis, if you decide to accept this game as it is, and not how you'd like it to be....there are caravans for you to attack in the "meaningful PvP" category and you'll find me there to make sure you have a "fun" time. "This won't be quick. You won't enjoy this. I'm not your queen." Check the video for all the "fun" he'll have.
I do not like PVP. I will only tolerate it because of the promise of the other aspects of this game. I will definitely not enjoy full-loot PVP.
That said, I think the devs should consider give @boogis a separate server for full-loot as he requested for. It will give me some joy to know that they have their fun, while I will have less to be concerned about mine.
@boogis Its clear your into ganking and thats exactly what you want to do in this game and you will be able to. I'll happily go toe to toe with you and winner takes full loot but we both know thats not what your going to do. Your going to get your buddies and gank cause you wont take that risk of losing 1v1 so I guess that makes you the scared cowardly child.
As for gear it sounds like its going to be a durability type system (think daoc if you ever played that if not look that game up). Gear loses durability from use and time and the value drops more and faster each time you repair the gear so you will have to have another made. That alone fixes the whole static never losing gear thing and creates a dependance on crafters.
Full loot will turn off more players than it will bring.
WELL. it depends on players. if they are casuals who afraid of risk then yes. its good idea with with flagging system but we still dont have to discriminate those who wanna live pk live. if they have so much penalties then they must have a reward. do you like dream of sterile world where nobody fighting over gear?
You even used WoW as an example... now, I never liked WoW. But, WoW was extremely successful. So, when you say "it depends on the players" I think they already found the majority and completed the statistics for us here.
When it comes to looting another player it's just resources but would it be a good idea to add a system where if it's 1v1 and you are both flagged as combatants the player who wins gets to loot a piece of gear of their choice from the player? And if it's say 2v1 they are only able to loot resources to stop people from ganking in groups?
seriously guys, im not into ganking myself, i told like ten times, i just want game be more fun, im into community. i played uo and albion and we never did ganking, its just feels so good when someone attacks your friend and you come for revenge and kill the enemies. and with full loot you know that they suffer, and you feel so strong connection with you co-guilders. its so exiting. but i never ever attacked anyone first same as my guild. we never attack weaker players or any players at all exept for pk. we kill only pk. and another thing. i know it wouldnt feel good if we had full loot in wow like games. cos in wow you get killed a lot for no reason and i would suffer if we had full loot there. NO WAY full loot in wow. but from another hand there is no good crafting system in wow. so no real gear flow. and everyone go around solo. you have to have 5 people with you so that you dont have risk to be robed. its better for community you get closer with your co-guilders you form a strong teamplay. i can tell you for many month of playing albion i had been full looted only one time in group, and only couple of times by playing solo. and albion hasnt that big map. so its only seems that full loot is bad and risk. when you really have it then it become a real fun. killing pk is very very big fun. its only seems that everyone will hunt for your gear. are you crazy? nobody care for you, why so ego-centric, nobody cares, especially if we wont allow to other players see what kind of gear you wear. especially when we create huge penalties for pk. nobody will care. its more beneficial to be a good person then bad. and we have to make it that way. we will create full lot in smart way. so everyone will be happy. dont be afraid
When it comes to looting another player it's just resources but would it be a good idea to add a system where if it's 1v1 and you are both flagged as combatants the player who wins gets to loot a piece of gear of their choice from the player? And if it's say 2v1 they are only able to loot resources to stop people from ganking in groups?
yes, we have do it right way, not just blindly reject it
When it comes to looting another player it's just resources but would it be a good idea to add a system where if it's 1v1 and you are both flagged as combatants the player who wins gets to loot a piece of gear of their choice from the player? And if it's say 2v1 they are only able to loot resources to stop people from ganking in groups?
yes, we have do it right way, not just blindly reject it
too easy for loopholes. The game recognizing 1v1 won't work
When it comes to looting another player it's just resources but would it be a good idea to add a system where if it's 1v1 and you are both flagged as combatants the player who wins gets to loot a piece of gear of their choice from the player? And if it's say 2v1 they are only able to loot resources to stop people from ganking in groups?
yes, we have do it right way, not just blindly reject it
I think you are just rejecting the arguments against it. A lot of people are supporting the game despite PvP, not because of it. We like crafting, we like harvesting, we like exploring, and we like that all of these, not only PvPing, can contribute to the growth of a node.
Now if it is in the capacity for the developers to provide a server for your full-loot system, I am all for it. But do I think it takes away from the more important things in their to-do list right now? I really do. But I know I will never join a full-loot server. Like I said before, I don't like PvP, and I noticed a lot of us don't, so why will we support full-loot PvP?
Maybe if your question is, "Should there by full-loot PvP servers for more hardcore PvP fans?", you will find more support. I might support that, seeing that it might take more PvP-inclined players to a separated server.
You see, I don't want specific servers to take away different playstyles. I want the world to include all. I think this is their goal anyhow.
What he is truly rejecting is the fact that this may be closer to hardcore than he might think. I put my two cents in and tried to point out that there will be lots of PvP in this type of PvP system (first hand experience), yet it went ignored.
seriously guys, im not into ganking myself, i told like ten times, i just want game be more fun, im into community. i played uo and albion and we never did ganking, its just feels so good when someone attacks your friend and you come for revenge and kill the enemies. and with full loot you know that they suffer, and you feel so strong connection with you co-guilders. its so exiting. but i never ever attacked anyone first same as my guild. we never attack weaker players or any players at all exept for pk. we kill only pk. and another thing. i know it wouldnt feel good if we had full loot in wow like games. cos in wow you get killed a lot for no reason and i would suffer if we had full loot there. NO WAY full loot in wow. but from another hand there is no good crafting system in wow. so no real gear flow. and everyone go around solo. you have to have 5 people with you so that you dont have risk to be robed. its better for community you get closer with your co-guilders you form a strong teamplay. i can tell you for many month of playing albion i had been full looted only one time in group, and only couple of times by playing solo. and albion hasnt that big map. so its only seems that full loot is bad and risk. when you really have it then it become a real fun. killing pk is very very big fun. its only seems that everyone will hunt for your gear. are you crazy? nobody care for you, why so ego-centric, nobody cares, especially if we wont allow to other players see what kind of gear you wear. especially when we create huge penalties for pk. nobody will care. its more beneficial to be a good person then bad. and we have to make it that way. we will create full lot in smart way. so everyone will be happy. dont be afraid
Using your scenario, if you only kill PK (as you claim), than you will find what you are looking for. It just won't be given to you on a silver platter. I don't see the issue
Using your scenario, if you only kill PK (as you claim), than you will find what you are looking for. It just won't be given to you on a silver platter. I don't see the issue
iv explained it 100500 times i can explain it 100501 time. BECAUSE pk has to have a reward if they want to follow that risky path. which full loot is. becoming pk will not be beneficial but once you break the law you must be rewarded in some way, and full loot is the best reward. of course it will be very hard live sustainably if you became a pk, u ll have constant risk of loosing your own gear and the loot you got from your victim, but we must support pks with full loot reward but at the same time make their life very difficult. we cant just make PK useless at all, there must be always risk in a game for both sides which make it more thrilling. if no one will loose anything then death becomes useless act, you will never care for your gear you will never care for your team mates you will never care for teamplay, you will never care for economy. you ll be like self sufficient. it will be like amusement park. and you paying for that. which make it money grab. pay2w. you like "i pay you money so dont you ever make me suffer". besides there might be diffrent situations. someone might insult you or your guild or you mother, and then what you gonna do? just kill him? he will just respawn loose nothing and you get corruption and he will say "fuck you anyway, i payed to bounty hunter for your head now, so fuck you and your mom". and you will do nothing about that. you will not make him pay. you ll be like "oh everyone fuck me but lucky we dont have a full loot otherwise i would loose my lovely gear. this life is for me"
Using your scenario, if you only kill PK (as you claim), than you will find what you are looking for. It just won't be given to you on a silver platter. I don't see the issue
iv explained it 100500 times i can explain it 100501 time. BECAUSE pk has to have a reward if they want to follow that risky path. which full loot is. becoming pk will not be beneficial but once you break the law you must be rewarded in some way, and full loot is the best reward. of course it will be very hard live sustainably if you became a pk, u ll have constant risk of loosing your own gear and the loot you got from your victim, but we must support pks with full loot reward but at the same time make their life very difficult. we cant just make PK useless at all, there must be always risk in a game for both sides which make it more thrilling. if no one will loose anything then death becomes useless act, you will never care for your gear you will never care for your team mates you will never care for teamplay, you will never care for economy. you ll be like self sufficient. it will be like amusement park. and you paying for that. which make it money grab. pay2w. you like "i pay you money so dont you ever make me suffer". besides there might be diffrent situations. someone might insult you or your guild or you mother, and then what you gonna do? just kill him? he will just respawn loose nothing and you get corruption and he will say "fuck you anyway, i payed to bounty hunter for your head now, so fuck you and your mom". and you will do nothing about that. you will not make him pay. you ll be like "oh everyone fuck me but lucky we dont have a full loot otherwise i would loose my lovely gear. this life is for me"
He will lose experience, nobody said they don't lose experience if they are pk'd. I told you I have played this type combat system before. Ignore again. You are not making sense, there is no pay2win. Look into lineage2, it was the same "flag" system. You will also find that game was HEAVY in PvP. Very heavy in PKs also.
BECAUSE pk has to have a reward if they want to follow that risky path. which full loot is. becoming pk will not be beneficial but once you break the law you must be rewarded in some way, and full loot is the best reward. of course it will be very hard live sustainably if you became a pk, u ll have constant risk of loosing your own gear and the loot you got from your victim, but we must support pks with full loot reward but at the same time make their life very difficult. we cant just make PK useless at all, there must be always risk in a game for both sides which make it more thrilling. if no one will loose anything then death becomes useless act, you will never care for your gear you will never care for your team mates you will never care for teamplay, you will never care for economy. you ll be like self sufficient. it will be like amusement park. and you paying for that. which make it money grab. pay2w. you like "i pay you money so dont you ever make me suffer". besides there might be diffrent situations. someone might insult you or your guild or you mother, and then what you gonna do? just kill him? he will just respawn loose nothing and you get corruption and he will say "fuck you anyway, i payed to bounty hunter for your head now, so fuck you and your mom". and you will do nothing about that. you will not make him pay. you ll be like "oh everyone fuck me but lucky we dont have a full loot otherwise i would loose my lovely gear. this life is for me"
PvP already has a reward - to stem the growth of other nodes and allow your own to flourish. This game is being build around the idea of PvP.
Also, corruption only applies to when you gank a player largely lower level than you.
The loser will lose time, and morale. The winner gets to advance his goals, whether it's to loot/defend a caravan, protect or invade his node, etc.
I really don't understand where you are getting P2W from a non-full-loot system.
They should make a hardcore PvP servers, I do not see why that isn't possible? I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
They should make a hardcore PvP servers, I do not see why that isn't possible? I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.
Have you noticed how few people like you and @boogis are arguing about and trying to defend having full loot or your own server?
You guys want real? You want risk? Why aren't you asking for perma death?
They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.
Have you noticed how few people like you and @boogis are arguing about and trying to defend having full loot or your own server?
You guys want real? You want risk? Why aren't you asking for perma death?
First time I message here and saying my opinion, so hardly arguing,
just stating that 22% that voted on first page which is around 40 people like the idea and that is why the developers should look into
having a hardcore server.
I know they already stated but I still believe they should be open for the idea, remember we not forcing anyone to play on this server.
Why I like this idea is because I am born and raised with Tibia where the PvP aspect was a big thing and it was full loot on it and people were legends on it because they were so hard to kill, and I do believe they could win a lot of these hardcore pvpers over if they had few of these server.
So once again, I don't want the whole game to be full loot, but few servers for those who are interested in it, which means you have a choice.
I've played in "full loot" games or games with high risks and I always end up unsatisfied and uninstalling the game. It's not the dying or losing the gear that pisses me off it's the opposite.
Fact is most people would never risk high value items like I did so what happens? I either got the kill in the lamest fight ever cause I easily out geared them and would loot the crappiest armor and weapons or they would run and I would poke them in the back in an attempt to kill them before they ran to the guards or a safe town.
Sorry but that's not fun at all... It was some of the lamest experiences I ever had. Worse is that a lot of people that "PvP for full loot" are not PvPers... They are usually the ones that prey on targets they know they can take down quickly & swiftly with little risk to themselves and are usually quick to run when they meet any potential opposition. Again... this is some of the lamest things I ever seen in games like that and they are not isolated cases.
Even in the very rare cases I went up against someone else with decent gear most of them have the tendency of running away when victory isn't guaranteed. No one shouts "Yea! I made that guy run away!".
I'm a PvPer I am here to fight not play "Open Season 20XX". Give me materials with actual worth over useless armor that no one wants.
They should make a hardcore PvP servers, I do not see why that isn't possible? I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.
Have you noticed how few people like you and @boogis are arguing about and trying to defend having full loot or your own server?
You guys want real? You want risk? Why aren't you asking for perma death?
because there is no permadeath in real life, you moron. read some books or something
Even in the very rare cases I went up against someone else with decent gear most of them have the tendency of running away when victory isn't guaranteed. No one shouts "Yea! I made that guy run away!".
ok. what do you want to shout instead? "Yea! i killed the guy and nothing happend" ??? Why you demand money at your workplace? why dont you just work for free? whats a point to have money anyway, after all you can loose them. someone can take it away from you. lets eliminate money.
yes they always run away, but what did you expect? you should learn some basic principles of hunting.
they gonna run away anyway, but if there is full loot you ll have a desire to catch them up. without full loot nobody will care.
They should make a hardcore PvP servers, I do not see why that isn't possible? I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.
well, that means that they dont care for the community and they gonna lose a lots of customers.
@boogis, Don't they can pay for each and every type of playstyle to be in it's own server. Best to go with majority and maybe something like this later down the road. Right now they are at startup and need to survive the initial moments before looking at things like this
I can't really vote as the options are too black and white. I mean i'm all for a fairly full loot system with repercussions for "murder". For example: Guilds in a state of war, killing is fine, take their inventory (not equipped stuff), no penalty. Unguilded or Guilded you aren't at war with, first hit tags you as starting pvp, if they fight back outcome is as above, if they do not attack back at all they still drop their stuff BUT you are now flagged as a player killer/murderer etc. Tagged player killers will drop inventory on death like everyone else, chance to drop equipped item(s) on death, no penalty for anyone killing you (guildies can't attack you still). "working off" your status should be simple and relatively quick to do ALTHOUGH should last long enough to make the task of getting your newly acquired (ie. stolen) loot to safety more "interesting". As to whether some places (eg. NPC towns) should be truly safe, I would have to weigh up a lot of other factors of gameplay before having a true opinion their as it could go either way.
They should make a hardcore PvP servers, I do not see why that isn't possible? I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.
Have you noticed how few people like you and @boogis are arguing about and trying to defend having full loot or your own server?
You guys want real? You want risk? Why aren't you asking for perma death?
because there is no permadeath in real life, you moron. read some books or something
Wait what?!? Im pretty sure if some 1 used a mace to smash your skull into 2 pieces you would be death. So unless your immortal i kinda think it would be permanent
I'm all in favor of open dialog, but the dev's have repeatedly confirmed that there is no full loot PvP in Ashes.
How world PvP works in Ashes has actually been described in a good amount of detail by Intrepid, including how the looting system and corruption mechanics work to prevent PK griefing.
Comments
I didn't read this whole mess but I will add two comments:
1. Some Players are too attached to "gear" to the point that it is a play or consider quitting if lost scenario. I would rather have all gear craftable by players and have gear not be so "power level defining. Then it's not THE END if you lose it.
2. @boogis On the other hand, since the goal is to "Not Build a Gank Box" you really can't expect Intrepid to over encourage ganking, now can you? Full loot all the time will do just that. Intrepid seems to want a balance between hardcore PVPers and PVP averse players. The games with PVP that actually last seem to be the ones that don't drive away all the sheep until only wolves are left and they slowly die.
On another note, Boogis, if you decide to accept this game as it is, and not how you'd like it to be....there are caravans for you to attack in the "meaningful PvP" category and you'll find me there to make sure you have a "fun" time.
"This won't be quick. You won't enjoy this. I'm not your queen."
Check the video for all the "fun" he'll have.
That said, I think the devs should consider give @boogis a separate server for full-loot as he requested for. It will give me some joy to know that they have their fun, while I will have less to be concerned about mine.
As for gear it sounds like its going to be a durability type system (think daoc if you ever played that if not look that game up). Gear loses durability from use and time and the value drops more and faster each time you repair the gear so you will have to have another made. That alone fixes the whole static never losing gear thing and creates a dependance on crafters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmIpo7CAaXM
I know, wrong game but i think i have made my point clear.
If there is risk, people will always try to minimize it at all cost.
and another thing. i know it wouldnt feel good if we had full loot in wow like games. cos in wow you get killed a lot for no reason and i would suffer if we had full loot there. NO WAY full loot in wow. but from another hand there is no good crafting system in wow. so no real gear flow. and everyone go around solo. you have to have 5 people with you so that you dont have risk to be robed. its better for community you get closer with your co-guilders you form a strong teamplay. i can tell you for many month of playing albion i had been full looted only one time in group, and only couple of times by playing solo. and albion hasnt that big map. so its only seems that full loot is bad and risk. when you really have it then it become a real fun. killing pk is very very big fun. its only seems that everyone will hunt for your gear. are you crazy? nobody care for you, why so ego-centric, nobody cares, especially if we wont allow to other players see what kind of gear you wear. especially when we create huge penalties for pk. nobody will care. its more beneficial to be a good person then bad. and we have to make it that way. we will create full lot in smart way. so everyone will be happy. dont be afraid
Now if it is in the capacity for the developers to provide a server for your full-loot system, I am all for it. But do I think it takes away from the more important things in their to-do list right now? I really do. But I know I will never join a full-loot server. Like I said before, I don't like PvP, and I noticed a lot of us don't, so why will we support full-loot PvP?
Maybe if your question is, "Should there by full-loot PvP servers for more hardcore PvP fans?", you will find more support. I might support that, seeing that it might take more PvP-inclined players to a separated server.
What he is truly rejecting is the fact that this may be closer to hardcore than he might think. I put my two cents in and tried to point out that there will be lots of PvP in this type of PvP system (first hand experience), yet it went ignored.
Using your scenario, if you only kill PK (as you claim), than you will find what you are looking for. It just won't be given to you on a silver platter. I don't see the issue
BECAUSE pk has to have a reward if they want to follow that risky path. which full loot is. becoming pk will not be beneficial but once you break the law you must be rewarded in some way, and full loot is the best reward. of course it will be very hard live sustainably if you became a pk, u ll have constant risk of loosing your own gear and the loot you got from your victim, but we must support pks with full loot reward but at the same time make their life very difficult. we cant just make PK useless at all, there must be always risk in a game for both sides which make it more thrilling. if no one will loose anything then death becomes useless act, you will never care for your gear you will never care for your team mates you will never care for teamplay, you will never care for economy. you ll be like self sufficient. it will be like amusement park. and you paying for that. which make it money grab. pay2w. you like "i pay you money so dont you ever make me suffer". besides there might be diffrent situations. someone might insult you or your guild or you mother, and then what you gonna do? just kill him? he will just respawn loose nothing and you get corruption and he will say "fuck you anyway, i payed to bounty hunter for your head now, so fuck you and your mom". and you will do nothing about that. you will not make him pay. you ll be like "oh everyone fuck me but lucky we dont have a full loot otherwise i would loose my lovely gear. this life is for me"
Also, corruption only applies to when you gank a player largely lower level than you.
The loser will lose time, and morale. The winner gets to advance his goals, whether it's to loot/defend a caravan, protect or invade his node, etc.
I really don't understand where you are getting P2W from a non-full-loot system.
I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.
Have you noticed how few people like you and @boogis are arguing about and trying to defend having full loot or your own server?
You guys want real? You want risk? Why aren't you asking for perma death?
I know they already stated but I still believe they should be open for the idea, remember we not forcing anyone to play on this server.
Why I like this idea is because I am born and raised with Tibia where the PvP aspect was a big thing and it was full loot on it and people were legends on it because they were so hard to kill, and I do believe they could win a lot of these hardcore pvpers over if they had few of these server.
So once again, I don't want the whole game to be full loot, but few servers for those who are interested in it, which means you have a choice.
Fact is most people would never risk high value items like I did so what happens? I either got the kill in the lamest fight ever cause I easily out geared them and would loot the crappiest armor and weapons or they would run and I would poke them in the back in an attempt to kill them before they ran to the guards or a safe town.
Sorry but that's not fun at all... It was some of the lamest experiences I ever had. Worse is that a lot of people that "PvP for full loot" are not PvPers... They are usually the ones that prey on targets they know they can take down quickly & swiftly with little risk to themselves and are usually quick to run when they meet any potential opposition. Again... this is some of the lamest things I ever seen in games like that and they are not isolated cases.
Even in the very rare cases I went up against someone else with decent gear most of them have the tendency of running away when victory isn't guaranteed. No one shouts "Yea! I made that guy run away!".
I'm a PvPer I am here to fight not play "Open Season 20XX". Give me materials with actual worth over useless armor that no one wants.
a. detrimental to economic growth
b. Staggers community growth
c. crippling to the word of mouth of the game
IMO I can see partial loot dropping but nothing above a green piece of gear or a few shekels and maybe some raw mats.
yes they always run away, but what did you expect? you should learn some basic principles of hunting.
they gonna run away anyway, but if there is full loot you ll have a desire to catch them up. without full loot nobody will care.
For example:
Guilds in a state of war, killing is fine, take their inventory (not equipped stuff), no penalty.
Unguilded or Guilded you aren't at war with, first hit tags you as starting pvp, if they fight back outcome is as above, if they do not attack back at all they still drop their stuff BUT you are now flagged as a player killer/murderer etc.
Tagged player killers will drop inventory on death like everyone else, chance to drop equipped item(s) on death, no penalty for anyone killing you (guildies can't attack you still). "working off" your status should be simple and relatively quick to do ALTHOUGH should last long enough to make the task of getting your newly acquired (ie. stolen) loot to safety more "interesting".
As to whether some places (eg. NPC towns) should be truly safe, I would have to weigh up a lot of other factors of gameplay before having a true opinion their as it could go either way.
How world PvP works in Ashes has actually been described in a good amount of detail by Intrepid, including how the looting system and corruption mechanics work to prevent PK griefing.