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Full loot!!!!

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  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    lexmax said:
    I'm all in favor of open dialog, but the dev's have repeatedly confirmed that there is no full loot PvP in Ashes.

    How world PvP works in Ashes has been actually been described in a good amount of detail by Intrepid, including how the looting system and corruption mechanics work to prevent PK griefing.

    Well for us its a dialog, for the OP its just abuse who doenst vote yes.
  • boogis said:

    well, that means that they dont care for the community and they gonna lose a lots of customers.  
    Or it means they care a lot about the community and don't want to see a bunch of half empty servers.
    As long as the end decision goes 75% of the way towards the majority with a 25% tradeoff to bring it to acceptable with the minority the community as a whole grows stronger.
    Maintaining and developing for a whole bunch of different servers with sub communities all expecting different things can and often does result in half baked implementations of future content that works for different rule sets with nobody ever truly happy.

    Remember what I think is a game killer, or yourself or any other one person, does not a community make, and we don't have to always be happy with or agree with decisions to still remain content as a part of a community.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Double Post.

  • boogis said:
    Dendail said:

    Even in the very rare cases I went up against someone else with decent gear most of them have the tendency of running away when victory isn't guaranteed.  No one shouts "Yea! I made that guy run away!".


    ok. what do you want to shout instead? "Yea! i killed the guy and nothing happend" ??? Why you demand money at your workplace? why dont you just work for free? whats a point to have money anyway, after all you can loose them. someone can take it away from you. lets eliminate money.  

    yes they always run away, but what did you expect? you should learn some basic principles of hunting.

     they gonna run away anyway, but if there is full loot you ll have a desire to catch them up. without full loot nobody will care.  
    Ooh seeing your reply was so cringe worthy it's sad...

    The first comment about working for free was beyond stupid... No where did I say I didn't want any reward for my kills and in fact the final line in my post is as quoted; "Give me materials with actual worth over useless armor that no one wants."

    Also fighting and winning a very close fight is exhilarating.  Like I've mentioned before I am a PvPer, I want to FIGHT.  Ganking is only considered PvP because it stands for Player vs Player but it is the lowest form of PvP that to this day I still can't understand how it is even fun for anyone.

    "you should learn some basic principles of hunting."... hm... I don't like hunting games they're boring.  I like PvP games.  If you're looking for a hunting game then you're in the totally wrong genre atm.

    Gathering materials takes precious time and people do not want to lose something of fair value.  The difference with materials vs losing all your equipment is that losing materials doesn't cripple you.  You don't think people won't care?  What a joke... In just the past three years there has been a couple of games with a caravan like system that can be raided by other players and trust me... people care a lot.  Entire wars have started just because someone lost a cart of materials.

    Sorry buddy but real PvPers want to fight... if all you want is to prey on the weak for jollies then step aside and let the real PvPers through.
  • boogis said:
    because there is no permadeath in real life, you moron. read some books or something

    I think I need to read more, because I am grossly misinformed about life and death.

    boogis said:
    well, that means that they dont care for the community and they gonna lose a lots of customers.  

    Hmm, what makes more sense, lose 22% of customers or lose 78% of the customers?
  • boogis said:

    siljon said:
    They should make a hardcore PvP servers, I do not see why that isn't possible?
    I mean it will only attract more people and me personally I would love to try it out, even if I am not a fan of it.
    They have already stated they are not going to make separate servers for special groups that includes RP as well as PVP.  

    Have you noticed how few people like you and @boogis are arguing about and trying to defend having full loot or your own server?

    You guys want real? You want risk?  Why aren't you asking for perma death? 

    because there is no permadeath in real life, you moron. read some books or something
    Sorry to disappoint you but only a moron would think death is not permanent in real life.  

  • @boogis
    Let's all be honest here...

    See how emotional everybody is getting just on the forums about this?

    Even the people that want to be able to fully loot the corpse of people they just killed (or that others killed), if their emotions are this high, I can guarantee they would quit after losing all of their stuff a couple of times and have to start over.  There would be nobody playing really soon.

    And yes, everything in the game should be risk vs. reward.  The "risk" shouldn't be that you have a character in the game, completely killable and lootable by everybody all the time.  Just like life, there's no reward for being alive.

    Now, that all said...
    I wouldn't mind having a system where you could "full loot" everything in their bags.  And "maybe" a weapon or trinket.  It makes sense that you shouldn't be able to keep stuff you've gathered or picked up after you die.  As for the gear?  Well, with full crafting systems in place like they have planned, then tailored gear to that character wouldn't fit you!  I suppose you could have it altered, but any reputable craftsman would know it was custom-made or tailored and would have you arrested for stealing somebody's stuff.  :p
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Valkeries said:

    Wait what?!? Im pretty sure if some 1 used a mace to smash your skull into 2 pieces you would be death. So unless your immortal i kinda think it would be permanent

        yes im immortal, same as you are, you didnt know that? universe is infinite, helllooooo ))))) 
  • Dendail said:

    G... people care a lot.  Entire wars have started just because someone lost a cart of materials.


         thats good. you will be living in real world. existing on the edge not kindergarden world
  • The best solution is simple:
    There need some safe(low level) zones with low amount of low level resources where you can turn PvP off.
    And there should be high level areas where you are constantly PvP on, but there are more resources.

    This way the casuals can play safety, they not lose their gear, only the ones who risk for the more reward will risk getting killed so lose their gear.

    For example in a large radious around the city would be a PvP off zone, you know, the city guards defend them, but in the wild, noone stops anyone from murder and pillage each other.

    Also even if you drop the items, it still not help the economy, as the killer just loot it and sell it. The items need to be destroyed in order to increase the need for new crafted items.
  • boogis said:
    Valkeries said:

    Wait what?!? Im pretty sure if some 1 used a mace to smash your skull into 2 pieces you would be death. So unless your immortal i kinda think it would be permanent

        yes im immortal, same as you are, you didnt know that? universe is infinite, helllooooo ))))) 
    You ought to read something factual and not fractured fairy tales now and then.  The universe might be infinite but your human  brain will shrivel and die whether you like it or not. 
  • MADE said:
    The best solution is simple:
    There need some safe(low level) zones with low amount of low level resources where you can turn PvP off.
    And there should be high level areas where you are constantly PvP on, but there are more resources.
    Eh... I like the setup they have now with PvP always on everywhere (not sure about cities though) but the corruption is steeper if a high level player kills a low level player who doesn't fight back.
  • no no no. If they allow "turning pvp off" they will ruin the game
  • wait a sec, I thought I read that there WILL be more or less full loot. It will be only be against the corrupt however so if you feel the "need" for looting people's gear, all you have to do is target the corrupt.

    If that's not good enough for you and you want to rob people who are more PvP centric then that's very telling......you are really only interested in preying on those with less ability to fight back.
  • Yeah...I voted against full loot.  After a hard day working, sometimes I just like to get out an run around and explore.  Last thing I want to do is constantly look over my shoulder and worry about someone ganking me and taking all my stuff just to swing his epeen around alittle.  Especially when I logged in to relax.
  • boogis said:
    Well I for one don't think its boring without gangers, I usually wanna explorer as much as possible and thats how I get my kick in games. I don't wanna have to do it while looking over my should all the time. (Also thats some filthy language you got there :neutral:)

    I don't think full loot is needed anyway as you drop a big portion of your raw material, and as most gear will probably be either crafted or need repairs, that is also extremely valuable. 

    WELL!!!!!!!!! That make  this game PAY To WiN!!! you pay your subscription and that allows you to feel yourself secure and gather your ore without any risk of loosing it!! THATS P2W!!!! Its not how it is going in real life. In real life you potentially loose everything. Seriously??? So many of ya voted against full loot? I cant believe there are so many of ya. you all wanna amusement park game 
    You are right, Sir.

    After 20 years of playing MMO's, starting in Ultima Online (pre Trammel), i spend my time pvp-ing and pk-ing full loot. I also experienced to be ganked and looted completely dry on nummerous occassions. Did i enjoy? Yes, very much.

    However, times change, people change and also games change. I just speak for myself when i say that i reached a point that i don't want to spend much time in a game which incentives ganking 101. I am looking for a nice community and a game which can draw a good line between a PvE and a PvP experience.

    Like many in this topic already stated, if you want to go out in PvP, go attack caravans, enjoy guild/castle battles, etc etc. If you want to run around the rest of the world, attacking crafters or gatherers, accept the fact it won't be rewarding as it used to be for you in other games and that you will have a penalty on doing so (corruption system).

    Things which always bored me in other games were the following scenario's:
    - Player X attacks me and i get ganked before knowing what was happening as i was gathering materials, helding a pickaxe or a fishing rod.
    - Player Z attacks me, somehow i manage to survive and kill him. When i start looting player Z, there is no loot except a crappy sword as Player Z was too affraid to loose his precious gear.

    In short, most gankers only wear undies as they want full loot on their victims but they refuse to wear anything usefull themselves.

    Welcome to Ashes, where the incentive for endless ganking is less than you would like to hear. Wishing you a good day, Sir.

  • In my opinion full or 'dry' looting isn't good unless it's a survival type game built around PvP.  I think being able to loot player corpses to some extent needs to be included.  Maybe some money and / or an item or two of 'green' or lower gear?

    If I'm remembering correctly, corrupt player's corpses can be dry looted? (This would be fine.)
  • You can be looted, if killed they can loot a percentage of your raw materials. 
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    haha omg this is a fight more than a discussion XD Popcorn and enjoy!

    Full loot or not full loot.... hmmm that's a great question. This is not a hardcore action game like Pubg. Drop all your items on you are just stupid, we need to find a balance between reward here guys. Full loot gives the attacker more reward than the target, because attacker knows he gonna attack and therefor have nothing on him except gear. The target have gear, but also loot*/rarer loot. There is no balance here.
    I would agree that you gonna to lose something or els you can just dance while getting killed.....great for the PvP player..... right. So as some people say, lose things from your bag. Some things or all things...idc.
    Remember it is a high fantasy game and NOT a real life game, so in theory some kind of magic so you can't touch the targets gear can be made :p

    This is a discussion and not a big battle, don't fight to much haha XD    

    +

    Maybe add into the game that you can steal loot from the monster with last hit (Give a dry cookie to the hardcore PvP players haha XD) 
  • Valkeries said:
    boogis said:
    Valkeries said:
    @ boogis


    "  PS.  calling people names, liars  and insulting them will get you nowhere.  "
    " Thats all bullies can do trying to intimidate people.

    He says there are no zerks in full loot systems but we all know there are.
    Im starting to think he runs the biggest Zerk in all the games he plays with full loot. "
    " well that depends what do you mean by zerg. is 10 ppl zerg? we usualy run around 5-10 ppl and about 50 when we attack the castle. and i do it along when im gathering. in AOC you wont be able to gather alone cos ore possition is fixed. so you will have to have guards and its good. that means guild that will work hard will have all the resourses. thats fair.
    and about bulling. hey bro, im not bulling but from another hand i dont really care cos you folks dot really listen. no full loot is like your belief its like your god, and nobody can convince u into another god. you like" oh stop bulling our god we love him". anyways who cares. whatever. I just hope that Intrepid will give normal people opportunity to have pvp full loot server, that would be awesome. "
    " ... Hell just insulted every 1 that doesnt want full loot in your last post.

    I do hope they add a server with full loot means i wont run into you in game because your toxic as hell ... "

    He's just trying to express why he prefer Full-Loot. Yeah, it might be the "wrong-way" of doing it, but lets lessen the negativity.
  • boogis said:
    Semaarius said:
    boogis said:
    " risk versus reward "
    " I vote against this because it would be too easily abused.  
    HOWEVER
    I think I know of a possible way to make it work.
    Instead of being purely Full loot, make it so each player has a PvP Counter.  Or a Faction Counter so to speak.  How it would function would be simple.
    Say there were two players.  Player 1 with 10 Player kills (PK) and player 2 with none.  If player 2 is attacked by player 1 and ends up dying he would lose a portion of his money but as long as he has a lower PK score than player 1 he will not drop any of his gear.  However if the PK scores were reversed and player 2 had a higher PK score than player 1 then his equipped items have a CHANCE of dropping.  
    Now in the case of self defense, (using the example above) if player 2 that has a lower PK score is attacked first by player 1 and somehow does pull off that reversal and kills player 1, by the rules of self defense his PK counter will not rise if he killed player 1 as long as his PK counter was lower.

    On another note with the second example given.  If player 1 attacks player 2, player 2 pulls off the reversal and kills player 1, since player 1 had a higher PK score, player 1 would have a CHANCE to drop some equipped items.  In the case of self defense the chance of dropped loot is slightly higher when pulling a reversal than being the attacker.

    So...  Risk versus Reward.  You need to have background knowledge on your intended target if you plan on becoming a headhunter. "
    " ... we played uo we played albion and nobody abused. you must do it right for example dont let other ppl see what gear you wear. and possiably your lvl. isnt it good idea? ... "
    I like this idea 
  • Hiding player levels makes a lot of sense.  Hiding the gear worn doesn't seem to.  I can look at another person and see most of what they are wearing / what weapons they have out......
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    boogis said:
     " i dont know why you think that full loot will bother PVE. Maybe wow is more poplular but it doesnt mean is is better. PVP in wow is very boring, its meaningless. all these arenas...i mean what s point. i like the idea whoever won in arena becomes a city mayor. that is very smart i belive. full loot will bring more meaning, people will try to balance betwin humiliation and pride. but in wow when you die nothing happen, whats a point? you just died so what? nobody cares. world remains the same. nobody cares for craft. everyone get their gear from PVE. so that you not playing you just trying to achive better and better gear for no reason. and the only reason why you need better gear is that other people can judge you by it and decide either you deserve this raid or not. and nobody need you if you have small gear, you get discriminated over a gear lvl. AOC will not going to be on WOW lvl but it doesnt mean i will be worse same as for UO. "


    Think what he's trying to say is that ... once a Player has reached the highest lvl in the game, once that same player has achieved the best items in the game, they have the audacity to treat others disrespectfully. And I've seen that happen countless times - resembling " an Elitist " .  As such, this beckons @boogis '   incentive / impulse of wanting to "shut-down " that " Elitist-Attitude" via Taking their loot
    (trying to figure you out > ~ <    @boogis )

    In addition, I think he's trying to say ... that once those items (including gear ) has been achieved, that same Player's Motivation for obtaining them has all been for nothing - because, usually, there is no end-game / " nothing left to do " in modern MMOs. As result, you;re left with seeing other players " sizing ' less-geared ' players"
    - seeing if they even qualify for the Raid/Content their trying to Challenge. 

    but i still don't (entirely) see why the incentive of having Full-Loot. Rather

    ... i think you would rather change how the " Drop-Rate / Drop-Chance " would result in ? In other words, allowing the Combatants (Purple) having a chance to drop some sort of Gear-Related* Loot ?  
    (rather than just a Corrupted (Red) )

    The bright-side is, that the PvP System mechanics might be changed after
     Alpha and/or Beta Testing.
  • Crymoar said:
    Hiding player levels makes a lot of sense.  Hiding the gear worn doesn't seem to.  I can look at another person and see most of what they are wearing / what weapons they have out......
    Being open to additional ideas of the PvP System is how i see this discussion
  • Eragale said:
    Crymoar said:
    Hiding player levels makes a lot of sense.  Hiding the gear worn doesn't seem to.  I can look at another person and see most of what they are wearing / what weapons they have out......
    Being open to additional ideas of the PvP System is how i see this discussion

    Yep!
  • lessen the negativity? look at this guy and the things he says? He wants full loot until he no longer has loot. I'd prefer it to be extremely difficult to get weapons and armor. Like in L2, if it was full loot you would have to reroll if you died. every. time.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    " lessen the negativity? look at this guy and the things he says? He wants full loot until he no longer has loot. I'd prefer it to be extremely difficult to get weapons and armor. Like in L2, if it was full loot you would have to reroll if you died. every. time. "
    Admittedly, I do not want full loot, But it would be a shame if we could not get more Players to like the PvP System.

    I, for one, do like the system in Place. But all will be determined after Alpha Testers (and Beta Testers ) ... gets a chance to see how that system will function.

    Although I mostly disagree with him,  some of the things he said would be a nice feature:

    >>such as Hiding Player Lvl from other's screen

    >>Preventing Players from Clicking-on you & seeing a detailed-description of your Gear.
    ( rather, you'd have to speculate & make good sense of Judgement ... However, it might get old once Players begin to familiarize themselves with Gear ... unless their is ample amount of Diversity in Crafting Gear and/or Obtaining Gear )

    Unfortunately I've never played a Open-World Full Loot MMO. So will definitely consider what you - and everyone else - has said about this that DOES have experience.
    Because the closest that i know of is RuneScape - and I do recall all the Gimmicks & Tricks some players would do to Manipulate Safe Zones & other things 

    (thx YouTube  :p )

    In short ... i see what you mean  :s
    Especially since Full-Loot leans towards PvP in a PvX MMO
  • Just reading everything, and this is just an opinion, it seems like boogis just wants to be a digital bully.
  • @Eragale yes, thank you )
  • Don't cater to gankers. There's really no argument here.
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