The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
Technically you can watch a streaming do it and make a video, or you make videos after you are way of ahead of others if no one is making videos. Monetary gain would be huge, also there are pretty big benefits to being a content creator in pvp games like this.
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
Technically you can watch a streaming do it and make a video, or you make videos after you are way of ahead of others if no one is making videos. Monetary gain would be huge, also there are pretty big benefits to being a content creator in pvp games like this.
I'm unaware of them. I will ask a friend about it at some point.
But I was moreso speaking about the fact that if there were rival guilds that were upset that you were sharing the secrets with the whole world while they were trying to get ahead, they might constantly declare war on your Guild.
I'm sure you'd beat them all, but it would probably take up quite a lot of your time, so for that, I salute you.
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
Technically you can watch a streaming do it and make a video, or you make videos after you are way of ahead of others if no one is making videos. Monetary gain would be huge, also there are pretty big benefits to being a content creator in pvp games like this.
I'm unaware of them. I will ask a friend about it at some point.
But I was moreso speaking about the fact that if there were rival guilds that were upset that you were sharing the secrets with the whole world while they were trying to get ahead, they might constantly declare war on your Guild.
I'm sure you'd beat them all, but it would probably take up quite a lot of your time, so for that, I salute you.
They can try but i hardly doubt that would happen, like I said videos will be out from everyone. It is not something that can be controlled it is how all games are now. Doesn't mean guides are out day one though besides streamer video's.
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
Technically you can watch a streaming do it and make a video, or you make videos after you are way of ahead of others if no one is making videos. Monetary gain would be huge, also there are pretty big benefits to being a content creator in pvp games like this.
I'm unaware of them. I will ask a friend about it at some point.
But I was moreso speaking about the fact that if there were rival guilds that were upset that you were sharing the secrets with the whole world while they were trying to get ahead, they might constantly declare war on your Guild.
I'm sure you'd beat them all, but it would probably take up quite a lot of your time, so for that, I salute you.
They can try but i hardly doubt that would happen, like I said videos will be out from everyone. It is not something that can be controlled it is how all games are now. Doesn't mean guides are out day one though besides streamer video's.
Maybe so, but it's good to know that the community will have a fallback if all the elitists from the 2000s turn out to be the top raid players, other than yourself and your guild, that is.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
The first don't always make guides, but eventually someone will.
Soooo what you're telling me is that EXACTLY this would happen, right?
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss
There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
Technically you can watch a streaming do it and make a video, or you make videos after you are way of ahead of others if no one is making videos. Monetary gain would be huge, also there are pretty big benefits to being a content creator in pvp games like this.
I'm unaware of them. I will ask a friend about it at some point.
But I was moreso speaking about the fact that if there were rival guilds that were upset that you were sharing the secrets with the whole world while they were trying to get ahead, they might constantly declare war on your Guild.
I'm sure you'd beat them all, but it would probably take up quite a lot of your time, so for that, I salute you.
They can try but i hardly doubt that would happen, like I said videos will be out from everyone. It is not something that can be controlled it is how all games are now. Doesn't mean guides are out day one though besides streamer video's.
Maybe so, but it's good to know that the community will have a fallback if all the elitists from the 2000s turn out to be the top raid players, other than yourself and your guild, that is.
Well we will see how things turn out we still don't know what raids will look like, alpha 2 will give us a better idea im sure.
Oh, and on the topic of streams, even in L2, top guilds would either forbid streaming during sieges/boss farms or would at least require 10+ minute delay, because showing your stuff is detrimental. So I could definitely see how something like Noaani's hardcore pvp guild would literally kick you if you were to start up a stream during an important raid.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss Doubt that'll happen though
This isn't the 2000's there will be guide for all bosses time of gate keeping and nostalgia elitist bots is over.
Good luck with that!
"One of the design elements that we're implementing into our raids is that the raid will not be exactly the same every single time. You're going to have variables that can't necessarily be pre-planned out for. You can pre-plan out for a lot of the raid like how many DPS do you need and healers and support; where the key position and all that kind of stuff; but I think the compelling aspect of Ashes raiding will be the difficulty in achieving this content and having that content change from session to session as well. We want there to be variables that get manifested by you know what type of node got developed elsewhere. Is he going to have acolytes or cultists? What will the acolytes have skills [available] to them? What kit is the boss gonna have? What available skill repertoire will the boss be able to [wield]? ... A lot of those systems are influenced obviously by world development. So the raid kind of takes into account at what stage has the world developed: Are there two metropolises now available in the world? Okay well let's activate this skill in this skill. Now you have five metropolises, well now all these skills have been activated. Are there are they all economic nodes? Are they all military nodes? That we can change things based on that stuff. And it really is a threat assessment from the environment against the players."
---Steven
At this point I dearly hope that Ashes does in fact have such a difficult boss that guilds will not make any farming videos about it, while still farming it successfully. At which point I'd ask Mag to explain to me how ez it would be to "just show video proof" for the complexity of the boss Doubt that'll happen though
This isn't the 2000's there will be guide for all bosses time of gate keeping and nostalgia elitist bots is over.
Good luck with that!
"One of the design elements that we're implementing into our raids is that the raid will not be exactly the same every single time. You're going to have variables that can't necessarily be pre-planned out for. You can pre-plan out for a lot of the raid like how many DPS do you need and healers and support; where the key position and all that kind of stuff; but I think the compelling aspect of Ashes raiding will be the difficulty in achieving this content and having that content change from session to session as well. We want there to be variables that get manifested by you know what type of node got developed elsewhere. Is he going to have acolytes or cultists? What will the acolytes have skills [available] to them? What kit is the boss gonna have? What available skill repertoire will the boss be able to [wield]? ... A lot of those systems are influenced obviously by world development. So the raid kind of takes into account at what stage has the world developed: Are there two metropolises now available in the world? Okay well let's activate this skill in this skill. Now you have five metropolises, well now all these skills have been activated. Are there are they all economic nodes? Are they all military nodes? That we can change things based on that stuff. And it really is a threat assessment from the environment against the players."
---Steven
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
I know.
Apparently, you need to read it several times to let it sink in.
You're welcome.
You need to keep your expectations in check and also reread my post. If you are dreaming raids are going to be hard and have random insane mechanics that will be unpredictable and unable to make guides explaining the possibilities you might end up getting cyberpunk 2077 syndrome.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
Though if it releases and all the raids also have tons of random variation to the point you can't predict or make a guide for all the elements, in all their raids in the game. While making them difficult, each variation feeling like a unique mechanically challenging experience and not feeling generic you can come back and say I told you so and ill accept it.
I expect there to be variation but these high end dungeons they make to be custom made and very challenging. Not something you can just throw random mechanics that feel completely different every time per death on top of it. Nor chaotic type content just to overly frustrate people, doesn't mean there won't be that one extremely hard dungeon out there but again time and resources are important.
Though if it releases and all the raids also have tons of random variation to the point you can't predict or make a guide for all the elements, in all their raids in the game. While making them difficult, each variation feeling like a unique mechanically challenging experience and not feeling generic you can come back and say I told you so and ill accept it.
I expect there to be variation but these high end dungeons they make to be custom made and very challenging. Not something you can just throw random mechanics that feel completely different every time per death on top of it. Nor chaotic type content just to overly frustrate people, doesn't mean there won't be that one extremely hard dungeon out there but again time and resources are important.
Well, there's some nuance there.
There's 'guides that only Elite players can manage to actually follow' and then there's 'general guides'.
I think it's possible for content to be random/hard enough that the guide can only be followed/properly understood by an elite player, or the average player who does the content so much that they will probably become one.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
World first is such a tiny amount of content I don't consider that to be competitive as they are just doing pve and have more time on their hands than others. Just because something isn't competitive doesn't mean the players are skilled, smart, well versed and have a good amount of time on their hands. Maybe if you time gated it and everyone had to do the dungeons at the same time without pvp interference, it would be more competitive but that still is only because other players are involved and could could say a form of pvp in a sense there. Take out the player element and you just have a coop game.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
World first is such a tiny amount of content I don't consider that to be competitive as they are just doing pve and have more time on their hands than others. Just because something isn't competitive doesn't mean the players are skilled, smart, well versed and have a good amount of time on their hands. Maybe if you time gated it and everyone had to do the dungeons at the same time without pvp interference, it would be more competitive but that still is only because other players are involved and could could say a form of pvp in a sense there. Take out the player element and you just have a coop game.
Yeah, that's always been the part where you and Noaani don't 'meet in the middle'. Noaani is an Elite, talking about Elites, and you're the Everyman, standing up for the average player. You're probably never gonna agree, you're worlds apart in terms of what you're talking about.
I also assume that when you were talking about the guides you would make, you meant for stuff like Tier2 raids, that the average player encounters, and not like, Tier 6 Elitist stuff. I agree that there will definitely be lots of guides for Tier2 raids.
I think the most interesting part will be that the guides have to update as people get better at them and the underlying system starts adding more mechanics.
But you know the Elites aren't gonna be the ones telling people about those until they've reached Tier4 or something...
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
World first is such a tiny amount of content I don't consider that to be competitive as they are just doing pve and have more time on their hands than others. Just because something isn't competitive doesn't mean the players are skilled, smart, well versed and have a good amount of time on their hands. Maybe if you time gated it and everyone had to do the dungeons at the same time without pvp interference, it would be more competitive but that still is only because other players are involved and could could say a form of pvp in a sense there. Take out the player element and you just have a coop game.
Yeah, that's always been the part where you and Noaani don't 'meet in the middle'. Noaani is an Elite, talking about Elites, and you're the Everyman, standing up for the average player. You're probably never gonna agree, you're worlds apart in terms of what you're talking about.
I also assume that when you were talking about the guides you would make, you meant for stuff like Tier2 raids, that the average player encounters, and not like, Tier 6 Elitist stuff. I agree that there will definitely be lots of guides for Tier2 raids.
I think the most interesting part will be that the guides have to update as people get better at them and the underlying system starts adding more mechanics.
But you know the Elites aren't gonna be the ones telling people about those until they've reached Tier4 or something...
If I were to use my own experience it wouldn't really be a fair look at gameplay. When i played new world I had like 350 hours in a month. Its better to look at things as a whole then thinking of special content for .001% of people that won't even last very long as well just can't see that as competitive. It be like you going to some friends house and telling them to jump on a fighting game and you beat them and say you are the best fighting game player here and act very competitive over it. Though if you are chill and not trying to toss around a fake badge you clearing the hardest boss first with your guild is still 9001% an achievement and something to gloat about if you want.
We will see how things play out, it being open dungeons will make things interesting . I'm unsure if they are going to stick to that or pull back from it and have different numbers of people for bosses. There is too many questions at the moment and not enough answers with actual gameplay shown to see how things will be done.
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
World first is such a tiny amount of content I don't consider that to be competitive as they are just doing pve and have more time on their hands than others. Just because something isn't competitive doesn't mean the players are skilled, smart, well versed and have a good amount of time on their hands. Maybe if you time gated it and everyone had to do the dungeons at the same time without pvp interference, it would be more competitive but that still is only because other players are involved and could could say a form of pvp in a sense there. Take out the player element and you just have a coop game.
Yeah, that's always been the part where you and Noaani don't 'meet in the middle'. Noaani is an Elite, talking about Elites, and you're the Everyman, standing up for the average player. You're probably never gonna agree, you're worlds apart in terms of what you're talking about.
I also assume that when you were talking about the guides you would make, you meant for stuff like Tier2 raids, that the average player encounters, and not like, Tier 6 Elitist stuff. I agree that there will definitely be lots of guides for Tier2 raids.
I think the most interesting part will be that the guides have to update as people get better at them and the underlying system starts adding more mechanics.
But you know the Elites aren't gonna be the ones telling people about those until they've reached Tier4 or something...
If I were to use my own experience it wouldn't really be a fair look at gameplay. When i played new world I had like 350 hours in a month. Its better to look at things as a whole then thinking of special content for .001% of people that won't even last very long as well just can't see that as competitive. It be like you going to some friends house and telling them to jump on a fighting game and you beat them and say you are the best fighting game player here and act very competitive over it.
We will see how things play out, it being open dungeons will make things interesting . I'm unsure if they are going to stick to that or pull back from it and have different numbers of people for bosses. There is too many questions at the moment and not enough answers with actual gameplay shown to see how things will be done.
Well, just bear in mind that this is the type of player and designer that Steven is.
There will be some in-depth raiding that has multiple stages that will be extremely difficult and... It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content... It doesn't mean that there won't be content available for the larger percentages as well... There should be a tiered level of content that players can constantly strive to accomplish. If there is no ladder of progression and everything is flat and all content can be experienced, then there is no drive to excel.[4] – Steven Sharif
This quote is literally him saying 'Sorry, some content will be Elites Only'.
But obviously it is also saying that there will be a lot of content for the people you are standing in for.
We will see how things play out, it being open dungeons will make things interesting . I'm unsure if they are going to stick to that or pull back from it and have different numbers of people for bosses. There is too many questions at the moment and not enough answers with actual gameplay shown to see how things will be done.
I think this is the important part that a lot of people seem to forget/disregard. If there's a super complex ow Boss out there and only one elite guild has been running it until they manage to finally beat him, literally all the other guilds will have no clue how they beat him (that is, if the elite guild manages to protect that info through pvp obviously). And now you have an elite guild that's even stronger because they're the only ones who can farm a boss.
I think the discussion so far has been mainly about "there's several great guilds that are all running the bosses in parallel, trying to be the first ones to get it", while that will not be the case in Ashes (at least as of right now). Iirc Noaani said that EQ2 had ow Bosses too, but I thiiink they weren't that difficult? Or it was the other way around and they were so difficult due to being ow that no one beat them? I forget.
But either way, in Ashes, competitive pve will directly influence competitive pvp. And that is my domain, which I'm very happy about
And Noaani's whole personality on this forum is built around being the person who'd have the ability to create such videos, while your entire personality is of the person who'd just wait for them instead of PARTICIPATING IN COMPETITIVE PVE to be the first one to release such a video
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
World first is such a tiny amount of content I don't consider that to be competitive as they are just doing pve and have more time on their hands than others. Just because something isn't competitive doesn't mean the players are skilled, smart, well versed and have a good amount of time on their hands. Maybe if you time gated it and everyone had to do the dungeons at the same time without pvp interference, it would be more competitive but that still is only because other players are involved and could could say a form of pvp in a sense there. Take out the player element and you just have a coop game.
Yeah, that's always been the part where you and Noaani don't 'meet in the middle'. Noaani is an Elite, talking about Elites, and you're the Everyman, standing up for the average player. You're probably never gonna agree, you're worlds apart in terms of what you're talking about.
I also assume that when you were talking about the guides you would make, you meant for stuff like Tier2 raids, that the average player encounters, and not like, Tier 6 Elitist stuff. I agree that there will definitely be lots of guides for Tier2 raids.
I think the most interesting part will be that the guides have to update as people get better at them and the underlying system starts adding more mechanics.
But you know the Elites aren't gonna be the ones telling people about those until they've reached Tier4 or something...
If I were to use my own experience it wouldn't really be a fair look at gameplay. When i played new world I had like 350 hours in a month. Its better to look at things as a whole then thinking of special content for .001% of people that won't even last very long as well just can't see that as competitive. It be like you going to some friends house and telling them to jump on a fighting game and you beat them and say you are the best fighting game player here and act very competitive over it.
We will see how things play out, it being open dungeons will make things interesting . I'm unsure if they are going to stick to that or pull back from it and have different numbers of people for bosses. There is too many questions at the moment and not enough answers with actual gameplay shown to see how things will be done.
Well, just bear in mind that this is the type of player and designer that Steven is.
There will be some in-depth raiding that has multiple stages that will be extremely difficult and... It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content... It doesn't mean that there won't be content available for the larger percentages as well... There should be a tiered level of content that players can constantly strive to accomplish. If there is no ladder of progression and everything is flat and all content can be experienced, then there is no drive to excel.[4] – Steven Sharif
This quote is literally him saying 'Sorry, some content will be Elites Only'.
But obviously it is also saying that there will be a lot of content for the people you are standing in for.
I agree there should be that kind of end game content so you have something to be challenged. But I'm talking about pve and being competitive, if we are talking about world first its such a tiny number and again can just be people with more time to throw at it and figure thing puzzles out and that amount that would be doing it is like i said .001 way below one percent, i prob should add more zeros but ya im going to bed now lol.
I agree there should be that kind of end game content so you have something to be challenged. But I'm talking about pve and being competitive, if we are talking about world first its such a tiny number and again can just be people with more time to throw at it and figure thing puzzles out and that amount that would be doing it is like i said .001 way below one percent, i prob should add more zeros but ya im going to bed now lol.
At the very least it's 0.4% because every server will have at least one guild that will be doing this. I could recount that to fit it better with the alleged 50k per server number, but I doubt this will be the reality of the game.
We will see how things play out, it being open dungeons will make things interesting . I'm unsure if they are going to stick to that or pull back from it and have different numbers of people for bosses. There is too many questions at the moment and not enough answers with actual gameplay shown to see how things will be done.
I think this is the important part that a lot of people seem to forget/disregard. If there's a super complex ow Boss out there and only one elite guild has been running it until they manage to finally beat him, literally all the other guilds will have no clue how they beat him (that is, if the elite guild manages to protect that info through pvp obviously). And now you have an elite guild that's even stronger because they're the only ones who can farm a boss.
I think the discussion so far has been mainly about "there's several great guilds that are all running the bosses in parallel, trying to be the first ones to get it", while that will not be the case in Ashes (at least as of right now). Iirc Noaani said that EQ2 had ow Bosses too, but I thiiink they weren't that difficult? Or it was the other way around and they were so difficult due to being ow that no one beat them? I forget.
But either way, in Ashes, competitive pve will directly influence competitive pvp. And that is my domain, which I'm very happy about
That said, there is expected to be some instanced content in Ashes, and if I had to bet on EITHER the Instanced or the Open World bosses being the 'Tier 5-7', I'd actually assume the Instanced ones would be.
Or that there was a ladder, where OW bosses are at Tier2, 4, 6, and are very Mitigation Check heavy, such that you need to succeed at the Tier 1, 3, 5, to have the defense gear required to stand up to them. Easy basic stagger design.
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There will be videos on everything in time it doesn't really matter what the fantasy is to attempt to create some weird scenario where that doesn't happen in another time line. someone will beat it, someone will see it, and many people will make a video in due time. If people didn't make videos i would make them.
You have a very generous guild and I pre-emptively thank you and your entire guild for your service.
Technically you can watch a streaming do it and make a video, or you make videos after you are way of ahead of others if no one is making videos. Monetary gain would be huge, also there are pretty big benefits to being a content creator in pvp games like this.
I'm unaware of them. I will ask a friend about it at some point.
But I was moreso speaking about the fact that if there were rival guilds that were upset that you were sharing the secrets with the whole world while they were trying to get ahead, they might constantly declare war on your Guild.
I'm sure you'd beat them all, but it would probably take up quite a lot of your time, so for that, I salute you.
They can try but i hardly doubt that would happen, like I said videos will be out from everyone. It is not something that can be controlled it is how all games are now. Doesn't mean guides are out day one though besides streamer video's.
Maybe so, but it's good to know that the community will have a fallback if all the elitists from the 2000s turn out to be the top raid players, other than yourself and your guild, that is.
You keep asking Noaani for video proof of boss complexity, but if, by any chance, Ashes has bosses that a difficult enough to wipe top lvl guilds several times over, you wouldn't be able to know about that complexity because you wouldn't be a part of such guilds, while Noaani would probably be the person who's gonna crack the boss. And because of that, competitively speaking, Noaani would be a better pver than you.
Well we will see how things turn out we still don't know what raids will look like, alpha 2 will give us a better idea im sure.
You don't know this, though. Mag has never indicated an inability to do what is being discussed, if anything, the opposite. That it would be easy enough that following a guide would work, and if there were no guide, that Mag would create it.
Mag also has an entire guild from New World to rely on. This sentiment is outright judging both their skill and their willingness to help (or even just willingness to share whatever monetization they can get from posting them) with no real basis, that I'm aware of?
It would make more sense to view this as an opportunity to make strong allies far in advance, (if you were likely to play on the same server).
While there is some merit to this, I dont think it really applies in this specific situation.
Mag is on record as saying there is no PvE competition - you just follow a guide. Anyone with this attitude and blindness to basic things like how a guide is made is not someone that has participated in top end content of any type, in any game. Not only that, but they likely have never really associated with anyone that has.
Not only have they not participated in top end content, they have never been "early" on any content. To take it one step further, not only have they not participated at the top end, nor been early on any content, but I would wager that Mag doesnt even know how far he even is from that edge, or how late he is on that content.
It is very much a case of Mag not even knowing how much there is that he doesnt know between where he is now, and where you need to be in order to be at that top end position.
Now, based on this, I am willing to make an assumption that any guild Mag has been in is hit functioning at the cutting edge of any game. To be fair though, this makes up 90%+ of all MMO gamers, so isnt a slight on Mag or his guild.
What I would then say though, is that a guild that has never been at the cutting edge of a game is not likely to be at that cutting edge in a new game. While not impossible, it is very improbable.
More shit talk, i can tell you're mad. I said it before I'll say it again pve isn't competitive.
"One of the design elements that we're implementing into our raids is that the raid will not be exactly the same every single time. You're going to have variables that can't necessarily be pre-planned out for. You can pre-plan out for a lot of the raid like how many DPS do you need and healers and support; where the key position and all that kind of stuff; but I think the compelling aspect of Ashes raiding will be the difficulty in achieving this content and having that content change from session to session as well. We want there to be variables that get manifested by you know what type of node got developed elsewhere. Is he going to have acolytes or cultists? What will the acolytes have skills [available] to them? What kit is the boss gonna have? What available skill repertoire will the boss be able to [wield]? ... A lot of those systems are influenced obviously by world development. So the raid kind of takes into account at what stage has the world developed: Are there two metropolises now available in the world? Okay well let's activate this skill in this skill. Now you have five metropolises, well now all these skills have been activated. Are there are they all economic nodes? Are they all military nodes? That we can change things based on that stuff. And it really is a threat assessment from the environment against the players."
---Steven
Already commented on this earlier
Apparently, you need to read it several times to let it sink in.
You're welcome.
At this point I believe the 'competitive' being referred to is the 'race to be the first to make the video for the monetization'.
Now, while you probably aren't interested in being the first to do it, you've already made the point that the first person to do it will probably make the most money from their channel, right?
First most likely won't do it as it will be a super guild most likely on the elitist side. Will also take time for people to create based on what the mechanics will be and how things work. Ie if mobs swap what mobs swap, how does it effect the raid and such and people explaining what to look out for on all details.
Average player experience by the time they start doing this content should have plenty of guides around.
Never said I wouldn't be interested in doing it first, to be a top tier guild you need to be doing more so you can win those ow PvP fights and sieges. As well as going back and helping lower level guildies get gear to help with their progression.
You need to keep your expectations in check and also reread my post. If you are dreaming raids are going to be hard and have random insane mechanics that will be unpredictable and unable to make guides explaining the possibilities you might end up getting cyberpunk 2077 syndrome.
Right. I know that you're not talking about PvE World Firsts or things that elites do, but the average player, when you say that PvE isn't competitive. That's where the misunderstanding is. Elites talk about things in Elite terms, so there's competition there.
I believe you've made it pretty clear what your opinion on elites is, too? I might be wrong.
I expect there to be variation but these high end dungeons they make to be custom made and very challenging. Not something you can just throw random mechanics that feel completely different every time per death on top of it. Nor chaotic type content just to overly frustrate people, doesn't mean there won't be that one extremely hard dungeon out there but again time and resources are important.
Well, there's some nuance there.
There's 'guides that only Elite players can manage to actually follow' and then there's 'general guides'.
I think it's possible for content to be random/hard enough that the guide can only be followed/properly understood by an elite player, or the average player who does the content so much that they will probably become one.
"Elite" guides for stuff get really long, y'know?
World first is such a tiny amount of content I don't consider that to be competitive as they are just doing pve and have more time on their hands than others. Just because something isn't competitive doesn't mean the players are skilled, smart, well versed and have a good amount of time on their hands. Maybe if you time gated it and everyone had to do the dungeons at the same time without pvp interference, it would be more competitive but that still is only because other players are involved and could could say a form of pvp in a sense there. Take out the player element and you just have a coop game.
Yeah, that's always been the part where you and Noaani don't 'meet in the middle'. Noaani is an Elite, talking about Elites, and you're the Everyman, standing up for the average player. You're probably never gonna agree, you're worlds apart in terms of what you're talking about.
I also assume that when you were talking about the guides you would make, you meant for stuff like Tier2 raids, that the average player encounters, and not like, Tier 6 Elitist stuff. I agree that there will definitely be lots of guides for Tier2 raids.
I think the most interesting part will be that the guides have to update as people get better at them and the underlying system starts adding more mechanics.
But you know the Elites aren't gonna be the ones telling people about those until they've reached Tier4 or something...
If I were to use my own experience it wouldn't really be a fair look at gameplay. When i played new world I had like 350 hours in a month. Its better to look at things as a whole then thinking of special content for .001% of people that won't even last very long as well just can't see that as competitive. It be like you going to some friends house and telling them to jump on a fighting game and you beat them and say you are the best fighting game player here and act very competitive over it. Though if you are chill and not trying to toss around a fake badge you clearing the hardest boss first with your guild is still 9001% an achievement and something to gloat about if you want.
We will see how things play out, it being open dungeons will make things interesting . I'm unsure if they are going to stick to that or pull back from it and have different numbers of people for bosses. There is too many questions at the moment and not enough answers with actual gameplay shown to see how things will be done.
Well, just bear in mind that this is the type of player and designer that Steven is.
There will be some in-depth raiding that has multiple stages that will be extremely difficult and... It would definitely be in the single digits of population that will be capable of defeating certain content... It doesn't mean that there won't be content available for the larger percentages as well... There should be a tiered level of content that players can constantly strive to accomplish. If there is no ladder of progression and everything is flat and all content can be experienced, then there is no drive to excel.[4] – Steven Sharif
This quote is literally him saying 'Sorry, some content will be Elites Only'.
But obviously it is also saying that there will be a lot of content for the people you are standing in for.
I think the discussion so far has been mainly about "there's several great guilds that are all running the bosses in parallel, trying to be the first ones to get it", while that will not be the case in Ashes (at least as of right now). Iirc Noaani said that EQ2 had ow Bosses too, but I thiiink they weren't that difficult? Or it was the other way around and they were so difficult due to being ow that no one beat them? I forget.
But either way, in Ashes, competitive pve will directly influence competitive pvp. And that is my domain, which I'm very happy about
I agree there should be that kind of end game content so you have something to be challenged. But I'm talking about pve and being competitive, if we are talking about world first its such a tiny number and again can just be people with more time to throw at it and figure thing puzzles out and that amount that would be doing it is like i said .001 way below one percent, i prob should add more zeros but ya im going to bed now lol.
That said, there is expected to be some instanced content in Ashes, and if I had to bet on EITHER the Instanced or the Open World bosses being the 'Tier 5-7', I'd actually assume the Instanced ones would be.
Or that there was a ladder, where OW bosses are at Tier2, 4, 6, and are very Mitigation Check heavy, such that you need to succeed at the Tier 1, 3, 5, to have the defense gear required to stand up to them. Easy basic stagger design.